Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

Carl, there is an axiom in business about not slamming your competition.  You certainly have not followed this good idea.  There is no need to insult Shawn or anyone else.  Shawn has been a part of HoS for well over 10 years.  There is a possibility that he has learned a few things to give input into the design of Chess sets.

Also Jaques, HoS and Noj do charge relatively high prices for the products they sell.  So what?  It appears that you either are the only person in your company and if you do employ help it is minimal.  That makes for a lower overhead.  HoS employs quite a number of people.  And HoS does have some of their product at a lower price than other places, including yours.  For instance I bought a set from them that you call the Paul Morphy Series.  The set I bought from HoS is identical to the one you sold, and they sold that set before you had it for sale on your site.  And I paid about $75 US including shipping.  You charge 99 GPB for the same set, which is about $142 US and that is before shipping.

I have owned and examined lesser priced products that look identical to the higher priced ones.  And you know what?  The higher priced Chess pieces, in the vast majority of times, do have some aspect that is better than the lower priced ones. 

You have admitted that the sets HoS sells do have some differences to the ones you sell that look identical in the pictures.  Well, there is a strong possibility that they have better quality pieces for sale than you have. 

I know that Frank used to wholesale the Jaques sets to Jaques.  He would tell me that his sets looked similar but the wood of each piece was selected to be the unqualified best with Jaques.  More and better attention was given to each and every aspect of the Jaques sets, making the higher price a good value.

There is a law in business about 3 aspects that people usually want in a product; low price, high quality and great service.  The actual fact is that you cannot have all 3 at the same time.  If you want the best quality and the best service you cannot have the lowest price.  I have found this to be very true, especially in Chess products.

Personally, I do not want to spend the high prices of Jaques for a Staunton design set.  The House of Staunton consistently, pay attention to "consistently", has the higher quality products and the best service at a reasonable, but not low price.

So, I have purchased and more importantly have kept, only sets from Noj and HoS at this time.  Yes, I have bought sets from others only to find the quality was not to my liking so I ended up selling them off.  You do get what you pay for.

Carl, you used the word supposedly about the weighting system that Frank has a patent pending on.  There is no supposedly, especially if a patent application has been made.  Once again you are taking a slam shot at another competitor.  This makes you look bad.

And yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  It is interesting that your opinion includes how others should run their businesses.  Once again you look bad and probably should quit talking while you're where you're at now, because you are no longer in the position of being ahead.

Hey Ron..... Thanks you are entitled to you opinion too..however .....

 I am writing this message to ask you how inexpensively I can buy the Fischer-Spassky, Ebonised set from you.

You see, I want to do a direct comparison between your product and the one House of Staunton sells.  I strongly suspect your product will be favorable.

Seeing that I only need to have and use one of these design sets, I have a young college student in mind to give the set that I do not want.

Of course I will post a lengthy review on this site giving my opinion and all of your set.  I fully expect to be able to tell all that they should check with you first before buying a set elsewhere.

Anyway, the 179 British Pounds is too steep of a price for me to spend on a set that I do not personally need.  I certainly do not want to insult you, but what is the lowest price I can buy this set from you?

Sincerely,

Ron Suarez/Eyechess

Yes, and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

I did want to purchase the Ebonized FIscher-Spassky set you sold to compare with the HoS one I bought before you offered that one.  You have sent people chess sets for free to review on here.  I was expecting to pay something.  You decided to offer me a price that was not far off the full price at the time.  That time and deal is over.  So what?

And since then I have given that college student a chess set that I purchased from Wholesale Chess.  He is very happy with that set.

But, go ahead and takes shots at me or others all you want, Carl.  You continue to decline in the way you look profesionally.

Dont you see Ron, everything about you is House of Staunton! its clearly obvious to me that your biased and will not ever see the points I have raised.

My point again is, we launched our set last year, and HOS have now launched their 1849 set which is almost identical to our 1851, but whats worse is Josh comes on here (from HOS) and slamms us as the " ripp off" company.....Im going to counter arent I? 

I have just replied to an email of Frank, and for his sake only I may very well drop our 1851 design to make way for his 1849 set, and he would be the first to tel lyou, I would do this out of our friendship only. 

Carl, you're kind of all over the place here, and that's not a good thing.

I love Noj and own 4 of the sets they make.  Does that make me biased to Noj?

I love HoS and own 11 of the sets they "make" or sell.  I have purchased other sets from other companies and a direct assessment of the quality differences yielded it so HoS produced the best quality of what I bought.  For instance, I bought a Lardy set from The Chess Store and just a few months later bought a set from Wholesale Chess.  Well, in December HoS came out with their Lardy version and a B H Wood design.  A good sale was going on and I took advantage of it with the intention of comparing the 2 different Lardy sets and keeping the best one and selling or giving away the one that was not so nice.  The HoS Lardy is visibly nicer and better than the one I bought from The Chess Store.  And the HoS B H Wood set, I liked better than the Wholesale Chess one.  So, I sold The Chess Store set and gave away the Wholesale Chess one.  No bias, just an objective evaluation, assessment and handling of Chess sets.

There was one set that I bought from HoS that I really did not like and actually gave to one of my brother-in-laws.  And that set was their Royale.  Of course I bought that set in the early 2000's when Frank first had it for sale, and their latest iteration might be better, but I'm not buying it.  So, I don't just take whatever HoS gives me or sells me. 

If I am "biased" because I insist on the best quality for the price, then I'm biased for Noj, The Chess House, The Chess Store, Wholesale Chess, American Chess Equipment (especially when Dewain Barber was the owner), HoS and Your Move Games and Chess.

Notice that I have not made any comments about the Chess sets you sell.  And that is because I do not own any.  And that is because you have not offered any sets for sale that I wanted at the time I wanted a Chess set.

You, Carl, are the one that has made attacks and negative comments about other companies and belatedly about me.  I am not angry or upset or anything.  In fact I find your writings to be kind of humorous.  You have failed to address the patent pending weighting system of Frank's.  instead you have directed attention to things that don't matter in the discussion.

And while we are at it, Alan Dewey rocks, as in rock and roll.

Chess Bazaar did not make Alan's design to all is specifications.  And if Alan does get someone to produce his design accurately I most likely will buy it.  But then that is probably because I am biased towards Alan also.

I must add something that I forgot.  Jonas of The Best Chessmen Ever is one of the best.

If Jonas designed it, I own it. 

I own a BCE Stage 2, Eastern, with Stainless Bases, that Jonas designed and Noj made.

I bought the BCE Stage 1 set that Jonas has made in India and sells from his website.

And I own 2, not 1 but 2, of those wonderful BCE boards that are wood and are magnetic and thus very portable.

Yeah, I must be the most biased towards Jonas.  I love the guy.

And also, Alan Dewey is the man and rocks, as in rock and roll.

The set CB made didn't follow Alan's design exactly.

If he ever gets someone to accurately manufacture his design I'm on board to get it.

But that's probably because I am biased towards Alan, too.

tea with your fruitcake madam? 

Well said. 

For me it is all summed up at this point.  Although the HOS sets are being manufactured in the same facilities there are several key differences between them and the set from OS.  The deciding factor is the size of your wallet.  For me the HOS set is priced so far out of range I might as well pretend it does not exist. 

As it has been said, for the price of the 1849 repro from HOS I could probably buy a real Jaques set from the 19th century in decent condition. 

yes i have to agree with you , youre quite right 

I liked this thread better when everyone was having a 'pop'

I though it was rock n roll Alan rock n roll !! you are rock n roll Alan hahah :) 

After lengthy discussions with Frank Camaratta, I have decided to drop our 1851 design. Frank has explained that this design ( his 1849 reproduction) has been in the pipeline for a few years and that he has not only spent a lot of money into this project, but a lot of his valuable time too. I have known Frank for about 15 years and we have always got on well and remained friends, even though we have gone " toe to toe" on may occasions :) 

I have known FC for about 25 years. Never liked him.

That's unfortunate, since it was the best set of its type within range of the average chess player's budget.  There's no good reason why the House of Staunton set should be so expensive. It may be higher quality, but there is no way it is over $3000 worth of quality. 

These are chess sets, not designer purses or shoes. 

thanks Alan, is that steel or lead weight with the glue? which would you recommend ?

Thank you Rob!! 

Hi Carl,

Steel or lead (or TC) would do, and as lead is restricted I guess it is best not to use it.

My idea was that 'floating' the weight billet in hot melt glue would allow the wood to 'move' (ie shrink) without splitting. I think about a clearance of 1mm all round would solve many of the problems encoutered with the previously used methods of casting the weight into the base (or in Jaques case) screwing it in. I doubt that there is an antique Jaques or BCC set out there which does not have splits in the ebony side.

Of course it goes without saying that trying to patent easy ideas like this (or adding superflous queens to sets etc.) is simply a futile attemt at restrictive practice that only foolish old men who wish personal agrandisement because of character failings would consider.

Thank you Alan 

Now I'm doubly glad I got my Official Staunton 1851 when I did.

Roger that! One day it might even be worth as much as the 1849 from the House of Staunton!