Shredder 12 released - first impressions of a Mac user

As an owner of Shredder 11 (Mac version), I exercised my right to a 20% discount and upgraded to Shredder 12 earlier this afternoon.  It's available for Mac, Windows, Linux and mobile.  (They also have a really nice iPhone version, but it doesn't share the same versioning.)  I've only ever used the Mac version, so I'll stick to talking about that here...

With the discount the cost for the upgrade was about $60US, a 20% discount off of the selling price.  (They also have a more expensive multi-processor or "Deep" version, but I didn't go that way.) 

I'm happy to have the new version, but of course I'd have been happier with a bigger discount as a registered user of 11.  $60 is about the price Fritz 12 is pre-ordering for (new), and I don't feel I got *that* much bang out of the upgrade.  Here's what's new:

- Engine is about 100 Elo stronger (according to Shredderchess.com)

- Handicap levels are more "human" in terms of errors, etc.

- Shredder can now rate your play (actually catching up with their own iPhone app here) and track your progress.

- Deeper built-in opening book (and still has direct access to Shredder's online opening and endgame databases - which has always been one of the best features)

- Mini-boards pop up whenever you mouse over a move in the notation.  (They look suspiciously like the ones here, on your online games page!)

See the link above for other details.

Many long-time users of Shredder Mac have expressed some annoyance with the output of the application's game analysis feature.  The two usual complaints are that A. there's no way to stifle the per-move engine evaluation and think-time data comments and B. the suggested lines are commonly only one move deep.  With lukewarm enthusiasm, I can report that the problems are half fixed:  Shredder now provides deep alternative lines for you to examine... but it still insists on inserting all the extraneous comments.  At least you can delete them.

In a nutshell:  Overpriced, but still the best computer chess available for OS X, imho.

One question, I have Deep Shredder 9 for mac, does DS 12 have auto-annotation (with backsolving)?

My biggest disappointment with Deep Shredder 11 for Mac is that it does not enable user creation of opening books as does Shredder for PC.  Having bought Shredder 9 and Shredder 10 for PC, I am not about to buy v.12 for Mac. Sigma Chess HIARCS is way more full-featured program for Mac, IMHO.

Yes, it does--assuming that "backsolving" means that it works backwards through the game adding annotation.  Doesn't ver. 9?  That's the feature I was referring to here:

"Many long-time users of Shredder Mac have expressed some annoyance with the output of the application's game analysis feature.  The two usual complaints are that A. there's no way to stifle the per-move engine evaluation and think-time data comments and B. the suggested lines are commonly only one move deep.  With lukewarm enthusiasm, I can report that the problems are half fixed:  Shredder now provides deep alternative lines for you to examine... but it still insists on inserting all the extraneous comments.  At least you can delete them."

Version 9 doesn't have auto annotation at all.. the worst purchase I ever made

Yeah, you might be on to something there...  I've tinkered with an older version of the free download, but probably worth a second look.  Cheers.

So... after messing around with them both for a couple of days, it's a tough race to call.  The advanced features of Sigma-HIARCS (user-created books, handicapping computer to a specific Elo, etc.) require an upgrade to the 'Pro' version of Sigma, which is now totally unavailable because of general compatibility problems with OS X.5.  So, practically speaking, it's now a close race, feature-wise--but maybe Sigma will get itself sorted out shortly.

As things stand this minute, Shredder is better looking & allows for a more configurable opponent.  (I can even use the HIARCS engine that came with Sigma under the Shredder GUI, which does allow me to adjust the engine's Elo/strength, which I currently *can't* do in the Sigma GUI.) 

As for the Sigma-Hiarcs package, the game analysis output is a lot neater than Shredder's AND I can use my new HIARCS multi-processor engine in both Shredder and ExaChess (my database program), so it provides some value across all the chess apps I've got running in OS X.

In the end, I'll probably play sparring rounds against HIARCS (in the Shredder GUI) & analyze/annotate games with HIARCS (in the ExaChess GUI).  We'll wait and see how things go with Sigma's current technology woes.

by the way, I don't own Rybka/Aquarium (at least not yet!) but in their site they claim that it runs fine on macs through WINE. Has anyone tested this?

Does anyone know when Sigma's OS X issues will be resolved?

I use Sigma Chess 6.1 Pro, and I haven't had any issues with it thus far...

I was referring to the current status of registration:

Registration is currently disabled

"2009-05-19: Due to what appears to be a general incompatibility with the latest Mac OS X 10.5.7, registration is currently disabled."

I wish I'd registered sooner, especially if you're not experiencing any problems.

I wonder if this problem even exists with users running 10.6.1?

Ah, that would explain it. I registered my copy while I was running 10.5.6 (or possibly 10.5.5), and when I upgraded to Snow Leopard it continued to work as I expected it to. I can't speak to registration issues with 10.6.1, since my copy was already registered...

I'm still on 10.4.  Man's got no excuse not to be taking my $20. 

I emailed the developer yesterday to see what was up.  If I learn anything, I'll add it here.

Thanks for the comments DG.  It seems like the analysis is improved and getting to the same level as the Windows version. I see that they've added a captured pieces display, so that's nice.  Some questions for you (when you have a moment):

- How is the histogram feature? Does it actually display each move coherently? (It seemed to not work that well in v11). Can you generate a histogram and copy the position evaluation to the game notation?  (I could do this in the Windows trial version, but not the Mac version.)

- Do you need to move/resize/etc. all of the windows independently? If so, how do you keep from throwing your computer out the window in frustration at how difficult it is to move the program to the center of the screen?

- Has the ability to add comments been improved in any way?  It's so easy in Sigma Chess, and even doable in the Windows version (Ctrl+M), but in v11 Mac, I had to right click or use the drop-down menu, both of which are slow and clunky.

- Has the database been improved in any way?  I don't really like the idea of using a separate program to view past games (mine or others').

I may have to try this out again, though I'm hoping Sigma Chess works out some kinks and makes a couple minor improvements, as I'm quite fond of the GUI.

If I had it all to do over, I'd go with Hiarcs-Sigma + ExaChess, a rather complementary duo, actually.  However, without the option to upgrade to Sigma Pro, that would leave me playing sparring matches against Hiarcs--at full strength.  Ouch.  :-)

I noticed the last post here was in '09... does anyone have a recent comparison between the latest Hiarcs (v13) in SigmaChess vs Shredder (12?) What about DeepJunior 12? 

I'm a low level player so I'm not concerned with the engine strength but more the overall ease of using the UI. The most common thing I like to do is set up positions from a FEN and then look at the various analysis/thinking lines as I manually try out different moves. Next most important will be working with my games file that I download from chess.com.

(Note, I was also messing with just using Scid and various engines, and I noticed in analysis mode of manual moves it would sometimes just stop working. Not sure why.)

Personally, I think Shredder is the best bet for what you describe.  The UI is easier to come to terms with and ... well, just nicer, I think.  You can paste in PGN or FEN, make moves manually, and set the Engine window to show you just the best line or the top 2-3, whatever you like.

Are you sure you can paste a FEN? That's sort of important to me since it seems the easiest way to start analyzing games. Many time I'm looking at book openings in chess.com and would like to know "what happens if.."  FEN seems the easiest to start analyzing the current position.

The trial I have has expired or else I'd check myself, and I e-mailed support but no response yet. (The docs for Shredder don't seem to mention anything about it.)

Yes, the ability to paste FEN into Shredder is "for sure."  :)

How do you paste FEN or PGN. I have tired and tried but can not do it! 

can someone take me through the steps please?