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Cheaters & Cheating: What you Need to Know What are the rules? No chess programs or engines (e.g. Chessmaster, Fritz, Houdini, Stockfish, Chessbase with any active UCI engine, etc.) can be used to analyse positions in ongoing games. In turn-based chess, you may consult books or databases (including the Chess.com Explorer) for opening moves. "Tablebases," which are specialized databases of particular endgame positions, may NOT be used. In Live Chess, no outside assistance OF ANY KIND is permitted. Fixing game results by playing with multiple accounts or losing intentionally is also considered cheating How do I report someone I think is cheating? If you have reason to believe someone is cheating, please report it here and include all relevant info (username, reason for suspicion, etc). We investigate all reports and keep them confidential. Please do not discuss your suspicions in the forums! How does Chess.com detect cheating? Part of our analysis involves comparing human moves to computer moves and looking at statistical significance. To remain effective, other aspects of our detection methods are confidential. How often does Chess.com catch cheaters? We are constantly going through our top players and submitting them to our cheat-detection process. We close many accounts each week (including those of premium members). What happens to a player who is found to be cheating on Chess.com? We close their account immediately; all games in progress are awarded to their opponents We do not and can not "restore" other users' ratings to what they would be in an alternate dimension where the cheater never existed! (Don't worry - just keep playing; encountering a cheater in your chess career won't make any difference in the long run.) How long does someone cheat before chess.com finds out? We need a certain amount of game-data before we can make an informed & accurate judgement about a member. It varies. What should I do if my opponent accuses me of cheating? Assuming that you are NOT actually cheating, our advice is to simply disable chat and continue your game. Your opponent may be frustrated, bewildered by your superior skills, or just trying to rattle you! If you want, you can also add the accuser to your blocked-player list so they cannot contact you again. If I reported someone for cheating, why hasn't their account been closed? We appreciate you reporting the suspected cheating, but ultimately we will decide on if they were cheating or not. If we have not closed their account then the evidence is not conclusive. You closed the account of someone I know - I'm sure they weren't cheating! Sorry that you are upset. Unfortunately, people do cheat - sometimes even really nice people. Again, we only close accounts when we are absolutely certain, not because of suspicion. Can someone appeal if their account is closed? We are happy to listen, but generally speaking, appeals are unsuccessful The usual pattern is that the member denies cheating and demands proof, and then we maintain that they were indeed cheating and we're not at liberty to disclose how we proved it: Pretty futile. Why do people cheat? Our best guess is a lack of respect for their opponents and for the game - often combined with low self-esteem. What does Chess.com think about cheating? Cheating is a terrible disease all over the world of online chess. Our policies are clear & strict; they are also faithfully enforced. We feel we are extremely effective in identifying and dealing with most cheaters. What does Chess.com recommend that we do/think about cheating? Forget about it! If you are rated below 2000, you are NOT going to encounter a lot of cheaters If you are rated above 2000, rest assured that we are always checking top players and evolving our detection methods Enjoy your chess, tell us if you have concerns about a given member, and let US worry about the cheaters! Note also that, to keep our regular forums free of a subject that tends to cause unnecessary anxiety, we have created a special group forum for discussions of cheating in online chess. Please restrict your comments on the subject to that group forum. Thank you! keywords: cheat, cheating, cheaters, engines, chess engines, outside assistance, computer assistance

I have been playing with the notion of becoming a writer that is published. I have attempted to publish one of my rants. I would love to know your honest thoughts, even to the point of your being able to read it or not. Please let me know; Thank you, Keven https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTc0wMfTi5v6g1zESk5aBlBZ_S4Wzm2ax12NbAHfTxgrW1ZvdEdvWd6Dgg5qPtQpoGebFwLDzryvU2L/pub

Dear Combatants, We have been together for many moons and many games here at the FFC. A couple years ago I began failing in my health and slowly deteriorating in my abilities to handle life. I took some time away from Chess, and my friends here, because I had begun to lose interest in chess as well as most of the things I enjoyed about life. The two years that I took off from chess to heal and focus on both pain relief and pain management were a huge failure: I am no better off than I was before I took off from chess. Mentally; however, I am in a much better and clearer state. I could not have done this without your help. Chess the game had become an addiction, and the time and energy I gave to starting, organizing, learning, growing, running the FFC and helping to evolve new clubs and their leaders and members was a labor of love that took its toll. Again, I could not have done it without your help. Thank you my friends for being there, stepping up, and taking over. I have been blessed to be surrounded by such wonderful people. When I needed time off, I did not even once worry about those I left in charge of my club. That is the greatest compliment I could give a person. I put them in charge of my baby, that devoured my time, and gave me a reason not to quit fighting to get stronger. My Admins that stepped up and ran things with no notice I was leaving. The Super Admins who immediately had to start making decisions, learning new venues and again, with no notice. Thank you. Not once was I given any reason to lose trust in my friends and leaders. Because of these things I am finding it very difficult to do what I am about to do. Due to no fault on your part, or anything on your part was this caused by anyone or failing to do anything. I am restructuring my club. I will be moving those that stepped up when I needed them back to being my friends and people I trust to give me their knowledge, judgments and ideas when I am making tough decisions. My words are true, thank you for running the FFC while I was away, and I am still asking for your input and help in running this club now. With Sincerity; Keven

Hi, I do not know if you guys have the same states attitude as we do, but they are telling us nothing but how wonderfully prepared we are for this pandemic. This link is to a you tube podcast and i think you will find it tells you what you need to know and scares the heck out of you: Which it should. JOE ROGAN PODCAST. YOU TUBE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw With Sincerity; BIGKINAK Attachments area

I need some learning from one of y'all smart folk please. I am Coaching a young Lady and the time has arisen to learn her "repetitive check". I can not find the spot to claim draw. The draw button says "offer draw/or claim draw" but when pressed only offers her a draw?? How do I claim this: P.S. It's time for her to learn it as it's the only way I can save a defeat! lol.

Dear FCC Chess Combatants, I picked up on this bit of conversation in one of my tournaments. It expresses the frustration many of us have AND VERY WELL AT THAT. It also was replyed to by a player who nailed it on the head and backed it up and you flat cannot argue, and Win, against this type of documentation, and defined rules or guidelines. I would like to know what you think? Please note that vacation time has saved my rear end twice this week alone, but that does not make it any more fun or faster for you. Please read these quotes and then respond to this question, or one of your own choosing. What do you think we can do to speed things up, yet being fair also, to improve our tempo and quality of games in my tournaments? Quotes by: fernalater Big D Fernalater London, Canada And: Martin_Stahl Martin Stahl Joplin, MO, United States And: Chess.com. Big D Fernalater fernalater "any thoughts on how we can improve our games with regard to time abuse by opponents? I am of the view that when a player visits the site while on vacation and refuses to make a move that they incur a time penalty - right now I experiencing the situation of a player refusing to play out holding everyone in the tournament hostage - " {SIC} Keven T.D. Well said, by someone who has beaten the snot out of me more than 8 times. Martin_Stahl "There are a ton of topics on this. Vacation mode for Daily games does not mean they have to avoid the site. A player may not have time to dedicate to a bunch of Daily games but still have time to read some forums, do some tactics, play a few games of blitz, etc. The site has a pretty specific definition of what constitutes vacation abuse." https://support.chess.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1444860-what-is-vacation-abuse- Chess.com. " What is vacation abuse? Vacation abuse occurs when players use vacation time simply to prolong games that are completely and hopelessly lost. Please use vacation time in an honest manner, when you are unable to move for an extended period. Chess.com has the right to adjudicate any game in which we feel one of the players is using vacation time to intentionally delay a game when in a lost position. Abusing vacation time may also result in a warning and/or account closure. Please note that we have taken some measures to discourage frivolous use of vacation time, including implementing a one-day minimum on vacation duration: All vacation times will consume a minimum of 24 hours. If you are only on vacation for 5 minutes, 24 hours will be deducted from your remaining vacation time. If you are on vacation for 23 hours, 24 hours will be deducted. But if you are on vacation for 25 hours, then it is 25 hours (not 48) that will be used. If you are confident that one of your opponents is abusing vacation, please contact us. (Hint: If your opponent has a significant number of games going on apart from the one(s) with you, he or she is probably not being abusive.. Remember: they can't move in any of their games as long as they are on vacation.)" keywords: vacation abuse abusing delay delays lost already

This forum was posted in the BRITISH Isles forum room by AustinGGilson. He is not the originatting author, but as he was the one who had it posted when I found it I would like to give him credit for sharing this forum. I am trying to find the original Author of this writting, my eyes are slowing me down. I will give him credit when I do. Admin Responsibilities Summary 1. Keep members safe: monitor content. Monitor that posts on group notes, forums, news and team match pages does not violate TOC. Either delete inappropriate posts or ask user to do so. Either way, best to communicate to user in PM about why his/her posts violate TOC. http://www.chess.com/legal#termsofservice 2. Recruitment of more members Use invite feature to invite more members to group. Some groups may wish to attract high rated players, some active members (points measure posts and such). Another thing to look for would be a person who is not already member of too many groups. Finally, some groups have a rule that you need at least 30 day's history on chess.com before you can be invited or could join. 3. Organize Team Matches, Tournaments and Vote Chess Some groups focus on discussions and may not have these. If you have team matches, fun to post group logo and battle cry to team match pages. Same for tournaments which also allow for custom trophies to fit your team's theme. 4. Keep group alive Make regular posts to group notes and forums to keep group alive and encourage same for it's members. As discussed elsewhere, if you copy a forum from another group, ask for permission first and give credit. 5. Welcome new members Not necessary, but nice that every time someone join an admin greet and welcome him/her on group note. Some groups use the "welcome to our group" fun trophy or post to the new member's personal notes. 6. Collaborate with other admins in HQ Best practice is to have a separate admin Head Quarter (HQ) group where logistics, strategy and conflicts within the admin group can be addressed. 7. Recognize contributions by other admins and members Consider things like congratulate the first member who wins a game in a team match. Further, a good idea is to give a fun (personal) trophy or post on someone’s personal notes if they create a new nice forum or make other contributions to the group. 8. Monthly newsletter Very few groups have this, but if you do it will make your group stand out. Topics could include call for joining vote chess and matches, match statistics, reminding members of group philosophy, mini bios of members, jokes, etc. 9. Do not get burned out If you have a day job, remember not to get overly involved and obsessive about all then group's details. It is supposed to be fun and it may be more so for everyone if you are relaxed and accepting. 10. Share responsibilities within the admin team It may help to have different admins be responsible for different areas such as "Recruitment", "Team Matches", "Vote Chess", etc. 11. Cross Train Be sure admins can cover for each other during sickness, vacation, etc.

Dear Combatants, Something interesting has come up and I think it should be shared information. A lower rated player wanted to be removed from 148 because he did not know how to do that open. I had already talked him into staying once by pointing out that the "BIG GUNS" are very willing to help and teach you as they play if you ask, they know they will smoke you anyway. So politely ask them if they would mind explaining why they did this or that. You can learn so much from getting whooped on. So after I think I figured out the right thing he was asking I sent him this, I think it is important for us to know this. Dear ******* Cheating is not tolerated by me or anyone else in these groups, and that has been made very clear. What has not been made clear is what is NOT cheating. When I do a strange open or defense in my tournaments I always make sure to list what the board’s number is and what the board is. In this case it is E06: Catalan Opening: Closed Variation. “it is a very ignorant man who knows the correct answer and fails to use it" This Quote is mine. So this is what I do. I go YouTube this opening. Watch the videos, learn what I can. Then I go play it against a computer or a friend. I play both sides, white and black until I run out of time. Here is the Key. It is called preparation, studying, and the smart and right thing to do to get ready for your upcoming match. As long as it is done before the tournament starts. It is called cheating if you do it after the start of the tournament. Go study, prepare and be ready for this tournament. Love Keven

I did not know this rule and it is an important rule to know. I thank ED59 for teaching this to me and enlightening me to this. I have always been aware of a draw by repetition when the players continue to move to and fro the same places 3 times. I did not know that these 3 times do not need to be consecutive. please read this information as it is a worthy thing to know, and to use when needed. Keven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_repetition Threefold repetition From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In chess and some other abstract strategy games, the threefold repetition rule (also known as repetition of position) states that a player can claim a draw if the same position occurs three times, or will occur after their next move, with the same player to move. The repeated positions do not need to occur in succession. The idea behind the rule is that if the position occurs three times, no progress is being made. In chess, in order for a position to be considered the same, each player must have the same set of legal moves each time, including the possible rights to castle and capture en passant. Positions are considered the same if the same type of piece is on a given square. So, for instance, if a player has two knights and the knights are on the same squares, it does not matter if the positions of the two knights have been exchanged. The game is not automatically drawn if a position occurs for the third time – one of the players, on their move turn, must claim the draw with the arbiter. In shogi, a fourfold repetition (千日手 sennichite) is required to end in a draw. Each player must have the same pieces in hand as well as the same position on the board. The result is a draw. Contents [hide] 1The rule 2Examples 2.1Fischer versus Petrosian, 1971 2.2Adams versus Ponomariov, 2005 2.3Capablanca versus Lasker, 1921 2.4Alekhine versus Lasker, 1914 2.5Korchnoi versus Portisch, 1970 2.6Kasparov versus Deep Blue, 1997 2.7In the opening 3Incorrect claims 3.1Karpov versus Miles 3.2Fischer versus Spassky 4History 4.1Pillsbury vs. Burn 5Related rules 6See also 7Notes 8References 9External links This article usesalgebraic notation to describe chess moves. The rule[edit] The relevant rule in the FIDE laws of chess is 9.2, which reads: The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when the same position, for at least the third time (not necessarily by sequential repetition of moves)a. is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, orb. has just appeared, and the player claiming the draw has the move.Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has the move, pieces of the same kind and color occupy the same squares, and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same.Positions are not [considered to be] the same if a pawn that could have been captured en passant can no longer be captured or if the right to castle has been changed. (FIDE 2005, Article 9.2)While the rule does not require that the position occur three times on nearly consecutive moves, it happens this way very often in practice, typically with one of the kings being put into perpetual check. The intermediate positions and moves do not matter – they can be the same or different. The rule applies to positions, not moves. If the claim for a draw is incorrect, the opponent is awarded an extra two minutes and the game continues.[1] Unreasonable claims may be penalized pursuant to article 12.6 which forbids distracting or annoying the opponent. Even if the claim is incorrect, any draw claim is also a draw offer that the opponent may accept.[2] Draws by this method used to be uncommon (Brace 1977:236). Examples[edit] The seventeenth,[3] eighteenth,[4] and twentieth[5] games of the 1972 World Championship match between Bobby Fischer andBoris Spassky were declared draws because of threefold repetition, although the twentieth game was an incorrect claim (seeincorrect claims below). Fischer versus Petrosian, 1971[edit] Fischer vs. Petrosian, 1971 a b c d e f g h 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 a b c d e f g h Position after 30.Qe2, after 32.Qe2, and after 34.Qe2 In the third game[6] of the 1971 Candidates Final Match between Bobby Fischerand Tigran Petrosian, Petrosian (with a better position) accidentally allowed the position after 30.Qe2 to be repeated three times (see diagram). Play continued: 30... Qe531. Qh5 Qf632. Qe2 (second time) Re533. Qd3 Rd5?and then Fischer wrote his next move 34. Qe2 (third time)on his scoresheet, which is the third appearance of the position with Black to move, and he claimed a draw.[7] At first Petrosian was not aware of what was going on. Incidentally, this was the first time a draw by threefold repetition had been claimed in his career (Plisetsky & Voronkov 2005:283–84), (Kasparov 2004:422–23), (Byrne 1971:682). This also illustrates that the intermediate moves do not need to be the same – just the positions. Adams versus Ponomariov, 2005[edit] Players sometimes repeat a position once not in order to draw, but to gain time on the clock (when an increment is being used) or to bring themselves closer to the time control (at which point they will receive more time). Occasionally, players miscount and inadvertently repeat the position more than once, thus allowing their opponent to claim a draw in an unfavourable position.Adams versus Ponomariov, Wijk aan Zee 2005 may have been a recent example of this (Friedel 2005). Capablanca versus Lasker, 1921[edit] Capablanca vs. Lasker, 1921 a b c d e f g h 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 a b c d e f g h The position after 34...h5 and again after 36...Kf8 and 38...Kf8. A draw was not claimed. As noted above, one of the players must claim a draw by threefold repetition for the rule to be applied, otherwise the game continues. In the fifth game[8] of the 1921World Chess Championship match between José Raúl Capablanca and Emanuel Lasker, the same position occurred three times, but no draw was claimed. From the position in the diagram, after 34...h5, the moves were: 35. Qd8+ Kg736. Qg5+ Kf8 (second time)37. Qd8+ Kg738. Qg5+ Kf8 (third time)The game continued; Lasker blundered and resigned on move 46. Capablanca repeated the position to gain time on the clock (i.e. get in some quick moves beforetime control) (Kasparov 2003:266–67). (Capablanca went on to win the match and became world champion.) Alekhine versus Lasker, 1914[edit] Alekhine vs. Lasker, Moscow, 1914 a b c d e f g h 8 8 7 7 6 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 2 1 1 a b c d e f g h Position after 16.Qg6 Lasker vs. Alekhine, St. Petersburg 1914 a b c d e f g h 8

deleted by owner sorry.

I would like to say up front that these are not just rules, but also information about how things work, or are run and interpreted. This is in no way saying that you are or every have been a cheater, a poacher, rude, nasty, or otherwise. It is just so you know how this site is run. Rules: I ask three things in my tourneys and if I do not get them I do not invite you back. Have Fun, Play Fair, and be competitive. Making Friends should be just as important as the game. Be polite, GL, GG, Good move, Etc... I have a good following now, but I did have to weed quite a few to get here. Start dates: The Tournament start dates are not correct. I have hosted many tournaments and have learned from them. Poachers are the biggest problem and hardest to avoid. By setting a start date way out in the future I can avoid Chess.com from starting the tournament, thus keeping poachers from slipping in at the last few spots to fill the tournament and make it auto start. This also gives me time to check out all the stats on players I do not know. When the tournament is full, and full of the kind of people I want, I then start it myself. By doing this I can eliminate anyone I feel unworthy, or a poacher. I can also eliminate anyone who is over the maximum rating allowed limit. Cheating: I hold a lot of tournaments, in only one case has it been brought to my attention that there may be unfair play involved. As a Tournament Director it is my responsibility to look into this to protect the players in my tournament. Cheating comes in many forms, poaching being the biggest in my rating level. They could plain be cheating, using a chess program, GETTING HELP ON THE INTERNET, FRIENDS or they are poachers. Poachers, lose or forfeit a bunch of games to get a low rating, they then join all the low rated tournaments, so they can win them all. What fun that could possibly be is beyond me, but it happens. The most cheaters on Chess.com are in the 1100 - 1300 rating range. I can remove any player from my tournament before it starts, but once started it is out of my hands. This type of cheating is not a Chess.com problem. It is my problem. That said, if a player is playing well above their rating, or I start getting complaints I have to research it. I will research all complaints using the rules on Chess.com about cheating before I report it. I have to put some trust in the system, no one wants to play a cheater, and you may as well just play the computer. Chess.com has been around a long time, when looking at a game for cheating they are not looking for one good move you learned in a book, they are looking for patterns that only chess engines use. In the rules it tells you what the punishment is for cheating. It is very clear. I do not know if there is a way to clear your name once labeled a cheater, in all my Tournaments, I have had to send in one game for analysis. You do not know the outcome, but any tournament's Director has a responsibility to protect his players as I have said. The Director must look at all the stats, listen to the complaints, check the games, and then make a decision whether he or she feels it should be looked into further. In all cases, I am sure, everyone hopes they are wrong. It is a necessary evil that comes with the job, but please know I take this very seriously and I will report it. Vacation allowed: I allow vacations in my tournaments as a benefit to my players. I, like many other regular players, have health issues. I am always one step away from a hospital visit or jail. With vacation time there is a safety cushion and I feel it is needed for emergencies. Yes it can be abused but EVENTIALLY they will run out of vacation time and forfeit. I always have tournaments starting so you can always play while you wait. I feel the benefits of having it are greater than the time drag it puts on the tournament. I have been experimenting with 5 day tournaments and no vacation allowed. Many of my higher rated players prefer no-vacation as the games drag on. So far I have had a good response. Please let me know what you think. Tournament changes: Many of you have been with me for a very long time and I thank you for that, but you have also gotten accustom to how I operate and run my tournaments. This section is for new joining members and those that have not been in the FFC for long. When I set a tournament, well, it’s not set. Part of being in the FFC and the joined groups that go with it is that we SA’s take care of our players. That’s part of the deal. What I am trying to say is, I will change the rating levels, I will change the number of players allowed, and I will change the number of players per pairings, starting positions, whatever it takes to meet the needs of the players and Friends in our groups. So there are two things you can always count on: Awesome tournament combats, and cool trophies. They may not be there when you join, but they will be when I start the tourney. PLEASE be ready for changes. Please leave comments or suggestions on how I can make my tournaments better or any changes you would like to see. I look forward to playing you' Sincerely; Keven T.D.

Dearest FFC Group; I have great news, along with some great bad news. As you all know, I have been looking to find some new blood to keep things fresh in our Group. I found an incredible group, the CYBERMENELITE and two wonderful people run it. This is a group that is made up with players like you and I: Fun, Fair, and competitive. I spent several hours yesterday with the number two man SatBchMagicer and had my head just crammed with info. That says a lot, he spent that much time teaching me. Guys, and gals, I am a child again when it comes to chess, I cannot even fathom what these guys know, if it even pales in comparison to what I learned last night. It is massive. Please welcome them. Their Group has been joined to ours so you could get an invite at anytime. I highly recommend you take it, and pick their brains. I am going to try to re-teach everything I learn to the other T.D.'s and they me until everyone in every group has had a chance to learn it. I am in one of their Tournaments right now. They are all like this, polite, happy to teach you. It is a great feeling. Now the Great Bad news: They are so far informed and trained than most of us that I have not come close to beating one yet. Losing while you learn is always good by me Make them feel at home. Thank you, Keven

Hello from Me, hope your all wining your games, except against me. As your Director, I try to keep abreast of all the stuff going on. In a couple of groups they are playing ladder Tournaments. I joined so I could learn about it for you. I think it's cool, and wanted you guys to know about it. You play the tourney, one game at a time, and from what I can see you are fairly close to your own rating level. You also get to challenge your own opponent a lot of times. So I am enclosing the links for you to check out. Keven Rated 1200 and above: http://www.chess.com/groups/forumview/groovers-ladder-rules http://www.chess.com/groups/forumview/groovers-ladder-standings Rated 1200 and below: http://www.chess.com/groups/forumview/groovy-gang-ladder-rules http://www.chess.com/groups/forumview/groovy-gang-ladder-standings

I think this is a great idea. I want to know what you think. Keven T.D. mrklin So, IronHawk has gotten a good start on the ladder, 300 members have joined and 60 of those already passed the 1200 rank mark, matches ongoing and a good bunch of people enjoying chess together. I've pondered what next and feel like it should go towards the development of our members, so I'm looking for ways to do just that. I've already done a little by the groovy training camps, giving us all experiences in exploring different openings. I hope those have been instructive for you, as I myself have found a new favorite black opening from that. Next I'm contemplating something with a bit of community effort. With that in mind I'd like to hear your opinions as well. The idea I'm toying with, is about running a series of mentored games, where the community chimes in on the thought process. The way I thought it was as follows: 2 players start out against eachother and finish an opening of their choosing (say maybe 5 moves in). Then, for each move the players make, they first post in a forum-thread what their thoughts are and suggest a couple of moves (or 1 if they feel it is forced) and what they hope to achieve. The community helps out by dissecting and discussing the plans and thoughts, and the move is only made on the last of the 3 day move cycles. Thats the basic idea I'm working on, but it has its ups and downs: Pros: •The players get a check on the way they think, considerations they may have missed, and general feedback on their play from others who play at their level.•The process more or less forces each move to be thought out, ensuring that both the players and the other participants from the community get to see their best thought out game without hasty choices that are often a bane for players our level..•Those outside the game itself get to experience others thoughtprocesses and may learn a few things.. Cons:•The games will take a very long time.•The contributors may be coloured by having access to both forum posts and seeing both plans..•There is always the chance the players look in on eachothers forums..•All "mentoring" will be from players as good/bad as you are, is that benificial enough?. Well, thats what I have so far. I'd love to hear any comments, suggestions or other insights the rest of you might have about this?