atomic opening: 1.Nf3 f6 2.e3 e6

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RorschachTest1

i tried this line against opabinia2401 who is #3 in atomic blitz and they smashed me in quite a few games while playing as black. so i ran this position through an engine to see how i could have survived, or even won. at first the computer thinks white is doing quite well, but then it led me down the following path: after these moves were input the computer says the position is basically equal, and this is only after precise play from white, routing the knight into a useful position just in time.

what do you think? would you want to play this line as white? is this a good response to the popular 1.Nf3 2.e3 line?

 

sabfrompc

1. Nf3 f6 2. e3 e6 3. Nd4 Bb4 4. c3 f5 5. Qh5+ g6 6. Nb5 Qh4 7. Qxh4 Nf6 8. f3 Ne4 9. fxe4 O-O 10. Nxa7 Bd6 is a draw with perfect play from both sides. Opabinia2401 often plays 9... a6 after which black should lose, but it's messy and white really needs to know what's going on to win. 9... a6 10. Nxc7 Bd6 11. g3 O-O 12. Bc4 f4 13. Rf1 for is the correct line iirc.

White is able to avoid all of these lines however by playing 5. Nb5 Qh4 6. g3 Nf6 7. d3 Qh5 8. f3, which is a bit tricky, but should be a win with proper play.

These drawn lines can also come out of 1. Nf3 f6 2. e3 e6 3. Nd4 f5 4. Qh5+ g6 5. Qh4 Qxh4 6. Nb5 Bb4 7. c3, but white can sidestep them there as well by playing 7. Nc3. As a general rule, if the queens are off or will quickly come off you should block a Bb4 or Bb5 attack with Nc3 or Nc6 respectively where possible, and if the queens are going to remain on you block with the pawn when possible.

Also the version of stockfish that lichess currently uses for atomic analysis is not the best. The most recent versions have some pretty bad bugs in their evaluations. As a result I've been using a version from early november in 2019 for personal analysis for quite some time now. If you want something actively developed though can download fairy stockfish, which recently added support for atomic. I have heard it's supposed to be better than the version of stockfish I'm using personally, but I haven't bothered to test things extensively myself.

PeaPer27

But first, aren't you using Lichess?

sabfrompc
PeaPer27 wrote:

But first, aren't you using Lichess?

No, I run my copy of stockfish locally rather than using the webbrowser version that lichess has in order to get much better analysis using a much better engine at the cost of it taking longer to download and get everything set up. You can run it as a command line application, but there are also interfaces available that support atomic:

ATP5m1h.png

 

If you were referring to why OP is using lichess, that's probably because chesscom doesn't have analysis for atomic yet, at least not that I'm aware of.

thefastmeow0
sabfrompc wrote:
PeaPer27 wrote:

But first, aren't you using Lichess?

No, I run my copy of stockfish locally rather than using the webbrowser version that lichess has in order to get much better analysis using a much better engine at the cost of it taking longer to download and get everything set up. You can run it as a command line application, but there are also interfaces available that support atomic:

 

 

If you were referring to why OP is using lichess, that's probably because chesscom doesn't have analysis for atomic yet, at least not that I'm aware of.

Chess.com 'has' an atomic analysis board, but doesn't have computer evaluation yet sad.png

sabfrompc
rune_raider wrote:

thank you! i thought 2...d5 was supposed to draw though and that 2 e3 was not theoretically winning, is this wrong?

2... d5 is not enough to draw theoretically, probably. The same can be said for 2... e6. Both moves have outside, very slim chances that black's just barely got enough to hold. I think catask overestimates the amount of theoretical knowledge that's required to play 2... d5 effectively, at least in the queen exchange lines that 99% of players play, but it's a more common option amongst strong players, so white will probably have prepped more there. I still find 2... d5 to hold more chances both practical and theoretical, and don't think the lines catask plays in 2... e6 would hold up well enough to really be playable at rapid or classical time controls, while I feel 2... d5 might, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And when both moves are thought to probably be lost, it's really a matter of picking your own poison as he says.

 

I'll also agree with 2. e3 not being the scariest move imo. There are 4 or so other openings that I think are more annoying to face over the board. The worst thing about 1. Nf3 f6 2. e3 is probably that there are a lot ways that white can go for a quick draw that black kind of just has to accept if white wants to go that route.

SharkBaitHooHaHaHah

you could play as black nf3 f6 e3 e6 nd4 f5

 
bishopsrannoying

im new to atomic chess, how do i play when im black against 1.Nf3-F6-2.Nc3. normally i play C6 to defend against the possibility of Ne5 then Nf7# but i still end up losing. how do i defend this?