Romans 5:12
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mene because all sinned
Death came into the world because of Adam's sin. Evolution has death before sin. This was THE argument that convinced me. There are many others that also support creation in 6 literal days, but this one alone convinced me.
Craig, I think you are right that it seems that the Bible and Darwinian Evolution are not saying the same thing when it comes to death.
I think we can also add 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 where Paul says much the same thing: For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
I know that some Theistic Evolutionists say that it was ONLY Human death that entered the world with Adam's sin, and they claim that Animal death had been around for millions of years but The Bible does say that before God made man he made the animals in their kinds and "He saw that it was good". But is declaring Creation "good" consistent with Darwinian evolution; a process that requires millions of years of natural selection through the survival of the fittest and the death of the weak?
I know some who say "it was only 'spiritual death'-separation from God' that entered the world at the fall, but "why did Jesus have to die a physical death to redeem us from 'a spiritual death'?"
Another Biblical problem with fitting Darwinian Evolution with the Bible is that in 1 Corinthians 15:26 it says
"The last enemy to be destroyed is death." How can Paul describe death as the "last enemy to be destroyed/defeated" if death is understood (as TE does) as a natural part of God's Creation and not part of God's curse on Creation generally, and humanity in particular?
Thei-Evoists are rare here, so I'll try (act) to reconcile them together.
God said and it was so -- God commanded them to evolve and it was so.
Gen3 You were ultimately made from dust (microbe) and to dust will you ultimately return.
12Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned
It's tough to answer this...
Yes, I agree. It's not hard to explain away everything except for that verse.
Thank you for this forum Steve! Genesis reads so beautifully and taken literally (it is not figurative writing), it cannot be misunderstood. The theistic evo must jump through many hoops for a plausible scenario that supports their many views. God is not a God of confusion.
Along the same line of thought, if salvation can be brought through the obedience of one man, Jesus Christ, because death entered by one man, Adam, does that not fall apart if there never was an Adam? And if theistic evolution was true, there never was an Adam.
Also, not to change the subject (even if slightly), as far as the “long period” theory of Creation goes (I know it’s slightly different from theistic evolution ), how could the plants created on day three have gone two thousand years waiting for the day 5 bees?
It’s interesting how the different elements of creation are inter-dependent.
I think this is a good answer to the question posed by this forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkAxRY41ndU&t=23s
That was very good Steve... here it is for kids who aren't allowed to click on links:
Thanks. I forgot that some people won't click on a link unless they can see what it is first. That is much better.
Theistic evolution (and I'll add progressive creationism to this too) definitely conflicts with certain readings of Genesis. The problem all the way around is how to manage the fossil record. Even from the earliest days of paleontology the fossil record has "looked" like progressive creationism. How to accord that with Scripture? I have no idea.
Good question. I guess the short version would be the fossil record is a record of repeated succession-extinction turnover events. For example, we see marine communities that persist with little to no change, then there is turnover where the community goes extinct and is replaced by a new marine community with new types of organisms and reefs, and then that one goes extinct and is replaced by another marine community with unique types of organisms and reefs, and then this one goes extinct and is replaced by a new marine community, etc., etc., etc. So there is this repeated pattern of community succession-extinction turnover, which led to the idea of progressive creationism.
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I was wondering what problems have you encountered with reconciling the Bible with Darwinian Evolution?
One problem I have is in Genesis it says "God said...and it was so" rather than "God said and after billions of years of evolutionary processes it was so"
A second problem is in Genesis 3 after the fall God says "you were made from dust, and to the dust you will return" (Genesis 3:19) and NOT "you were made from a pre-human hominid and to a pre-human hominid you shall return".
What difficulties have you found in trying to reconcile Theistic Evolution with the Bible?