Some questions about... Komodo!

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FonsecaSF

Ok, i play a lot with komodo and i'd like to make some questions that i think it will be general interest.

1) There is a list of komodo standard (initial/supposed) ratings?

2) It seems that komodo plays better when it have higher rating. Let's say komodo 10. If it have at a moment 1400, it plays better than when it have 1300. It is psychological or it is true?

3) komodo 9/10 seems to play way better than its rating for about 20 moves then make a blunder that not even a newbie would do. It is normal? It is supposed to komodo emulate human moves, way better than stockfish, and that doesn't seem very "human" to me. It should make several inaccuracies not a killer blunder if i survive some time...

4) There are push downs/ups for komodo levels when they invert order, like 9 higher than 10 for some time?

5) After some games with the bots i feel that all moves are the same between games. It feels that if i write the game down, i can play all the same, with no variation. It is true, or only my feeling? If it is true, can't you give a more random responses for the bots?

6) When the 60 bots will be available? There will be any shortlist describing each abilities?

Hope someone can answer me! Good chess! happy.png

pawn314159

I don't know what the administrators will be doing to advertise the bots. They have put a tremendous amount of time in on this, to come up with 60 bots with varying skill levels. So, I imagine they will heavily describe the bots at some point in the forums or articles. I must say though, It was surprising to see 50 + bots hitting over 3 days of time with only a small blib in one of the posts, mid-summer, that they were coming on-line at some point.

Whatever the admin people will be doing, I have been playing the bots on a daily basis and am working on posts which detail each game, so the members can gradually accumulate data and info on the bots. I like your idea of a shortlist. I will probably include a small blib on each one which I haven't played.  I can send you a link to the posts as I finish them, if you like.

On your point #3, I have noticed the same thing. I have had several games where the bots or even Komodo have come out very strong in the opening. After fighting them off and barely surviving, many of the lower levels will weaken considerably, giving me the game in simple flubs. Its almost if they are programmed for a 1800 + rating level in the opening, then at some point mid-game, turn down to a 1000 rating level or less. Perhaps, that is the way the bots and Komodo can be reduced in their ratings. better than the lowest levels with flubs all the way, but not great play all the way, either. I would prefer a consistent level of ability coming from the computers, but as a character in the original Star Trek series said: "the air is air ... what can be done?"

FonsecaSF

@pawn314159 Please send me the link, if i can help in any way i'll try to help you. About advertisement, i can think 2 reasons for the absolute muting. Or they plan to do a great announcement, with all the fireworks, in a surprise date or they are having problems with the bots, or even the result is not what they pretend, at least for the time being, and they want to solve the problems before the great announcement. About the #3, i know "air is air" wink.png and a machine will always be a machine, but with a so evolved ai, i can't imagine that they cannot reduce depth, making the machine to make inaccuracies, and not to shamefully blunder... I know i play komodo as if i am playing a bullet, despite the time control i play... It plays quickly, i play in a sec... sad.png But it wins for me twice in 15 moves today... I'm not a master, but i don't play as badly too... Like you said, seems 1800 and then drop to 1000. Great great openings, even when it takes the queen right away, and i think how i'll punish it, and sometimes... well, let's say i don't pretend to analyse that games... too strong for 1300...

jdcannon

1,2,3 Hanicapping engines is hard  its tough to make them play like a human and weaker than normal. 

4 I am not sure what you mean

5 That does happen sometimes for some the newer bots that have intentionally small opening books; but they shouldn't be playing exactly alike.  If they are can you send me a link to the games?

 

6. Not sure (there is going to be more than 60) and I m sure there will be. 

FonsecaSF

@jdcannon, i have some lights from programming, not chess unfortunatly, it would be cool! I think if you reduce the depth the engine can "think", let's say to 2 or 3 moves, for example, it can play bad without giving a piece. The problem is that it play very well the openings (better than i) and surviving that it blunder pieces that it would be impossible in a real game. It seems two players playing the same game (an hard player and a newbie)... If it happens in a particular game, no problem with that, but it happens everytime, at least for the komodo levels i play.

4. I notice, but i'm not sure that when the levels invert, for example komodo 9 has 1400 and komodo 10 has 1300, all of a sudden komodo 9 drops for 1300 for example and komodo 10 climbs to 1400 again. I'm not sure if it is the players getting advantage of komodo 9 (weaker) have a such higher rating, or it is the system maintaining the supposed ratings. It may be days like this and seems to change all of a sudden. May be some paranoia from me...

5. I talked with another member that feels the same, we are trying to check that out... but we need the bots available.... They are online, they are offline wink.png

6. we are here in beta to help the developers, if they need, make them online and we test them! happy.png

jdcannon

4. its normal for their ratings to go up and down. Sometimes people just do better against and engine and its rating goes down for a bit. 

pawn314159

Thanks for turning the bots back on-line. Almost all of them have returned, and it looks like all 60 have now made at least one appearance. Good idea, too, to sort by ratings rather than by name. That intersperses them in between the Komodo levels, to show the options for play at the same ratings levels. 

If any of us can be of help to your beta testing, please send a note. Otherwise, we will just play them to see the stuff they have!

pawn314159

For those interested in the new bots, have now gathered info on all new computer bots and Komodo levels with ratings < 1000. A blog post is at: Man vs Machine, Initial Days of Computer Bots

pawn314159

I have now played many of the Komodo levels and bots in the mid-ranges of 1000 to 1700, and this has produced a great amount of information on the computer programs.  Data from those games is available at: Man vs Machine, Part II – the Mid-Level Bots.

pawn314159

I have now put together info on the better bots and computer programs above 1700 rating. This includes game info on Stockfish and Lc0, as well as data and statistics on K 17-24 levels, K Boss, 20 + bots, and the latest of the bot line-up based on real people, Hikaru and Danny Rensch.

It is at: Man vs Machine, Part III – the Better Bots.

The last part of the blog series will be on the pros and cons of computer play. Please give me what you like and dislike about the computer chess programs, and I will incorporate your thoughts in Part IV of the series.