Chess computer
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I am thinking about buying an old mephisto chess computer but theres lotsa different models n modules so any one got any ideas of the best one to go for? thanx lee
Best "bang for the bucks" is Mephisto "Chess Challenger" and his clones. Except you specifically looking for luxurious wooden (with modules) models...
Instead of a retro Mephisto standalone, why not consider a Millennium Phoenix? It has multiple Mephisto retro engines included, works with a fresh veneer sensory board with lots of LEDs, and does chess piece recognition. It is also upgradeable with additional engines, like newer engines that use AI processing, through Millennium themselves.
https://computerchess.com/Produkte/M-Serie-Mephisto-Schachcomputer-mit-WIFI/
You will regularly find vintage chess computers in good condition in the classifieds everywhere. How much do you waant to spend? As nik111 said, the (Mephisto) Chess Challenger, or the Saitek Centurion (which is the same, only in different but IMHO more attractive design) are top value if you can get one for around €50 or 60 bucks (with mains adapter). ELO 2000 strength, and a vast number of options in a compact but not ridiculously tiny box.
chessroboto wrote:
Instead of a retro Mephisto standalone, why not consider a Millennium Phoenix? It has multiple Mephisto retro engines included, works with a fresh veneer sensory board with lots of LEDs, and does chess piece recognition. It is also upgradeable with additional engines, like newer engines that use AI processing, through Millennium themselves.
https://computerchess.com/Produkte/M-Serie-Mephisto-Schachcomputer-mit-WIFI/
Thanks for reply. I already have a Millennium 820 and happy with it. Think the new mephisto phoenix engine is compatible although ive heard that when you play on weaker levels it plays abnormally ie: weak and stronger in different parts of the game. I think i wanted the nostalgic pleasure of playing the old mephisto classic board. But maybe your idea is worth consideration. Thanks, Lee.
chessmaster_diamond wrote:
You will regularly find vintage chess computers in good condition in the classifieds everywhere. How much do you waant to spend? As nik111 said, the (Mephisto) Chess Challenger, or the Saitek Centurion (which is the same, only in different but IMHO more attractive design) are top value if you can get one for around €50 or 60 bucks (with mains adapter). ELO 2000 strength, and a vast number of options in a compact but not ridiculously tiny box.
I like the bigger wooden boards that are kinder to the eyes after hours of staring at it!
The Mephisto Exclusive wooden boards are also widely available. It's harder to find the tournament-sized Bavaria boards. The boards with the 16 or 32 bit modules are quite expensive, I find them way overpriced considering the modern alternatives, i.e. unless you're a collector.
The best 8bit modules like MMV or Rebel 5.0 are quite strong, too, also between 1900-2000 ELO. Here in Europe those usually cost around €350-450 with an Exclusive board.
leethebumblebee wrote:
Think the new mephisto phoenix engine is compatible although ive heard that when you play on weaker levels it plays abnormally ie: weak and stronger in different parts of the game. I think i wanted the nostalgic pleasure of playing the old mephisto classic board.
1. If you can replicate the abnormality of the weak levels when playing the retro emulated ROMS, document it and submit it to Millennium. That company is receptive to such inputs. They go out of their way to get inputs from their customers.
2. The Phoenix can simulate the behavior of the original ROMs since you can control how fast or how slow the engines processed their searches using the current hardware. Do you remember how long each turn took when they were set to play at their strongest levels with the deepest search trees?
3. Dead, expensive 40 year old electronics is not fun to deal with.
4. If the Phoenix does not have the specific retro dedicated chess computer that you’ve always wanted to have, consider software emulation.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-wonderful-world-of-chess-machine-emulators
Hurry before the resources supposedly get pulled before end of 2024.
Playing with an emulation on your PC or through a different machine is just not the same as playing against a real vintage computer.
chessmaster_diamond wrote:
Playing with an emulation on your PC or through a different machine is just not the same as playing against a real vintage computer.
Agreed. I just cannot afford them. I’ve wanted the Mephisto Muenchen cabinet with the Polgar module. 
I get pleasure playing a person or an individual computer especially lovely looking wooden board set up. I recently bought a couple of vintage cheap computers and beat then on the top level first attempts but struggle on the higher easy mode levels on the millennium 820.
That Mephisto Moenchen cabinet looks good.
I think the Mephisto magnet sensory module boards that were made of wood were the best the company offered back in the 80s. They’re also likely to break and fail over time compared to the pressure sensory boards that were mostly plastic.
A possible compromise: The "Mephisto modular" board. Mid-size, with plastic pieces. Works with all the 8bit modules, including the "Polgar".
The advantage is that the magnetism of the pieces is much better than for the exclusive or Munich wooden boards.
Me, as someone who just once peaked 1250 here, on chess.com, in rapid, is satisfied with one of the clones of "Excalibur De Luxe", namely - "Krypton Shachpartner 2", approximated of 1300+ elo in human rating. I commonly take electronic board with no pieces transfering the output from display to another, real board... after leveling up, usually reset the whole machine with metal pin, via "ACL"...
P.S.: Not even trying to play (Mephisto's) "Chess Challenger" - "Fun 6" level is strong for me.
chessmaster_diamond wrote:
A possible compromise: The "Mephisto modular" board. Mid-size, with plastic pieces. Works with all the 8bit modules, including the "Polgar".
The advantage is that the magnetism of the pieces is much better than for the exclusive or Munich wooden boards.
Seriously considered getting one of these when they showed up in the secondhand market. I saw it be used with a Revelation module which ran Rybka during the early 2010s.
Just so that everyone knows; the Polgar module is included in the list of retro ROMs of the Phoenix.
chessroboto wrote:
leethebumblebee wrote:
Think the new mephisto phoenix engine is compatible although ive heard that when you play on weaker levels it plays abnormally ie: weak and stronger in different parts of the game. I think i wanted the nostalgic pleasure of playing the old mephisto classic board.
1. If you can replicate the abnormality of the weak levels when playing the retro emulated ROMS, document it and submit it to Millennium. That company is receptive to such inputs. They go out of their way to get inputs from their customers.
2. The Phoenix can simulate the behavior of the original ROMs since you can control how fast or how slow the engines processed their searches using the current hardware. Do you remember how long each turn took when they were set to play at their strongest levels with the deepest search trees?
3. Dead, expensive 40 year old electronics is not fun to deal with.
4. If the Phoenix does not have the specific retro dedicated chess computer that you’ve always wanted to have, consider software emulation.
https://en.chessbase.com/post/the-wonderful-world-of-chess-machine-emulators
Hurry before the resources supposedly get pulled before end of 2024.
I also have the Phoenix and have tried some of the emulations. As has been said, you can control how fast the emulations respond. I know this sounds weird to some, but I much prefer to play the Phoenix than to play other people. For me, playing chess is more like my wife doing crossword or soduku puzzles - just something to keep my brain functioning. The Phoenix makes a great, patient partner. I don't use the emulations all that much, but do find them fun on occasion. My "vintage" chess computers are the Novag Star Diamond and Star Sapphire. Since getting the Phoenix, I don't use those all that much, but keep them around for the occasional change of pace.
tbeltrans wrote:
I also have the Phoenix and have tried some of the emulations. As has been said, you can control how fast the emulations respond. I know this sounds weird to some, but I much prefer to play the Phoenix than to play other people. For me, playing chess is more like my wife doing crossword or soduku puzzles - just something to keep my brain functioning. The Phoenix makes a great, patient partner. I don't use the emulations all that much, but do find them fun on occasion. My "vintage" chess computers are the Novag Star Diamond and Star Sapphire. Since getting the Phoenix, I don't use those all that much, but keep them around for the occasional change of pace.
The Phoenix was Millennium’s gift to everyone who wanted to play against the strongest dedicated machines by Mephisto and TASC on a beautiful wooden chess set but were cost-prohibitive to own. When the retro machines are in one box, it makes sense to just use that every time.
Also, the Phoenix offers large engine add-ons that use the now-popular neural net/AI networks/servers for analysis. This solution was missing when the Revelation dedicated computers/modules came out 20 years ago.
The next series of upgrades that Millennium should offer are weighted chess pieces with recognition tech for popular/favorite designs such as the Dubrovnik and Zagreb for their Exclusive and Supreme board sizes. Admittedly, the new rosewood choice was a nice touch.
"Phoenix" is actually the simplest tablet in wooden stand + DGT board. The most valuable thing for which you are paying is an actual software as I could see?
The closest that DGT got to using their own smart board with a dedicated computer is their DGT Pi clock. Runs one engine and is not intuitive to update despite it being hosted by a Raspberry Pi in a plastic case. Forums have been silent about it, so I wonder if anyone still uses or cares about it.
At least the Certabo DaVinci uses the Raspberry Pi correctly to offer a dedicated computer companion for its own smart board. It uses the touchscreen and leverages software upgrades which include more than one engine. Certabo should have partnered with ZMF to use with the TapNSet Pro clock. That’s what’s missing with their lineup.