Chess Piece Companies

I started coming to this forum at the end of the last year, November or December.  The one thing I noticed was all the attention given to one company, Chess Bazaar.  Many on this site wrote frequently and often as this being the place to go to get a nice quality set at a very reasonable, if not an outright cheap price.

A lot of the discussion was over the 1849 reproduction set.  There also was and is quite a bit of talk about their Dubrovnik reproductions. 

I read with interest the writings about the different designs and all.  I also read of the excellent service they provide with free shipping from India to North America, and their speedy delivery service (think Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood).  I have been to their website and chatted with their reps online.  They obviously are a company producing and selling chess sets.

Back in the 1990's we had only a few places to get chess sets from and the quality was nothing like it is today.  When Frank Camaratta started his House of Staunton, he did it because there was a distinct lack of quality chess sets available to buy.  Well, he certainly broke the path so this is no longer even a thought.

We all know that the vast majority of wood Chess sets made are manufactured in India.  In fact this is where Frank went to  have all his sets made.  He contracted with one or so companies to have them produce the sets he designed or re-designed.  Frank added a strong quality control to his sets which still make them the best, bar none.  As another person posted a few days ago, there is something 'magic' about HOS sets which sets them apart from others, even or especially the copies.

And there were copies made, even with the copyrights Frank had.  In fact I recall a time when Frank challenged and won over a copier and all those copies were in fact given to Frank and HOS.  This was in the first part of the 2000 decade.

The House of Chess and the Chess Bazaar are companies based in India selling sets direct to the consumer.  Of course they might not be the exact manufacturer themselves but nonetheless they are still based in India where the sets are manufactured.

The Chess Bazaar blatantly copies designs.  Even if they alter some details of the pieces they are still copying the name.  I have read a number of glowing reviews of this company and their offerings, so much that one person, GoodKnightMike, looks as if he is either in love with or married to the company, and if anyone speaks ill of them, "Off with their head!"  And this even when one of their designs has a critical flaw in production having the stain bleed all over the place when moist.

My observation of Chess Bazaar is that they are a company based in India with at least one direct line to a manufacturer or manufacturers.  And they are able to make copies of sets or even make sets to an individual's specifications.  Yes, they are apparently the only ones doing that customization at this time.  And yes, they have very reasonable prices.

The House of Chess has a lot of sets with similarities to more original sets, but they do not copy the names and I noticed quite a bit of changes in the designs from any original.  For instance, look at their Yugo (Zagreb) set design.  It has knights like the Zagreb '59 and other pieces looking like a close relative of a Dubrovnik set.  There is no other like this out there.  And their prices are quite reasonable.

I would like to point out one thing about the price thing with chess sets.  Many may not know it, but there is a lot, I mean a huge lot, of mark up or profit in a most all of these sets.  I have been told by insiders that the mark up can get up to the 5 or 6 times the original cost.  Maybe this explains why Chess Cafe and these Indian companies can be so cheap.

Of course there are companies that sold and still chess sets that are very original or at least individual.  Your Move Chess and Games sells the Mark of Westminster brand, for example, and there are others like Legend Products and the Chess House.

Of course there are other "companies" like Noj which are actually the manufacturer of the sets.  They are a small operation and their products are very labor intensive.  Hence their costs are higher than the high volume producers in India.  However with Noj, the different designs they offer as well as their production numbers are low, much lower than the places in India.  So, there are only so many different kinds and numbers of chess sets any one player can buy from them, reasonably.  For instance, I have already purchased 2 sets from Noj, through a reseller no less, and when I talked with Izmet about getting his new board offering he said both he and Gregor know me as I am a good customer, and I only made 2 buys from them.  So, this little company is very personal and personable with their products and their customers. 

So, what do we, the individual Chess person look for when buying a set?

1. Design - How does that set look in material, shape and dimensions?

2. Quality - Is that set finished well?  Does it have good weighting and balance?  Does the production look sharp and crisp versus crude and sloppy?

3. Price - Can we get this product at a reasonable price?  And can we get it cheaper than most think?

4. Service - Will the company get the product to me quickly and safely?  If there is a problem will they take care of that problem?

As Robb_Chess has said, more than once, you get what you pay for. 

Another way to get the message across is to say you do not get what you do not pay for.

If you want superb quality in design, workmanship and service, then you will need to pay a more superb price for that.  If you don't pay that superb price then don't expect the superb quality in design, workmanship or service because you didn't pay for it.

Many of us, especially here in the United States want something for nothing.  You know, we want the best at a very cheap price.  Yes, I know these sentiments are more international as well.

What we all need to realize is that these people running the manufacturing and selling of the products must make a profit.  If they do not, they will not be able to pay their bills for doing business and living in their society.  Breaking even on the bottom line of a sale makes it so they will not be able to survive as a company for very long.

If we want a cheap price, then something must give in or give up.  I have read on here about the sweat shops and child labor in India.  That is certainly a concession for a lower price.  Also the amount and/or quality of workmanship can vary and be reduced for the lower cost.  And finally the service might very well suffer for the cheaper price.

So, what other companies are out there that you folks like and use?

We have already heard of The House of Staunton, The Chess Piece, The Chess Store, The Chess House, The House of Chess, Your Move Chess and Games, Noj, Chess Bazaar, Beekay and maybe some that I have missed.

What else is there?

Excellent Doctor what an expose.

Wholesale Chess carries a middling number of wooden chess sets that they offer in different woods, with a few designs that I've seen nowhere else.

Yipperoo used to have a website, but they seem to be going out of business with only a couple of chess sets on Ebay now. Here's an unusual one that I liked and bought from them a couple of years ago.   http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q638/JackieMatra/Juan%20Carlos_zpsopxjg79z.jpg

Yes, there's that House of Chess set that Lou likes in eBay as well, the Yugo (Zagreb) in Blood Rosewood.

Of course Wholesale Chess has some wood sets for sale.  So does The Rochester Chess Center (www.chessset.com).  I know that I will not remember every place.

Legend Products, or Legend Chess Products has a number of original design sets that they have sold for a good number of years.

I haven't looked but I think Beekay or Bekay or something like that also sold sets on the internet, from India direct.

I guess I should also point out that the intended purpose of the Chess Set by the consumer matters as well.

If you want a set to use for all around play, including blitz or skittles, then pieces with sharp points or tips that can easily break off are not desirable.  This is where a lot of the German Knight sets and ones like the LIberty or HOS Gambit Series come in.

Regular, rated or otherwise slower timed games can handle pieces with some vunerable parts on them.  This is why I like the HOS Players Series set so much.

For even slower games and ones in my "parlor" with a friend, the nicest of sets are good as well.

If someone were buying the set for collector purposes then the playing aspects are not as important.  Pieces not being as well balanced, for instance, won't matter when the set is used for display or other collector reasons.

You certainly desereve  this award!!

I am not affiliated with Chess Bazaar but I feel that I just have to respond to the allegation that Chess Bazaar (CB) sells inferior products because they are cheap.  The CB offerings may be different from NOJ or HOS offerings but they are not inferior. Just different.

As to the "crimson dubrovnik" problem, CB has stopped selling them as soon as the problem was pointed out.  Note that most of us owners did not notice the problem until after the posting, and after I deliberately wet a pawn for testing.  CB offered owners a 30% discount on the next set, which may not be much until you realize that the set is relatively cheap to begin with.  I am getting a Dubronik in Ebony for $126 (SHIPPED) because of my crimson set "problem".  BTW, I am still regularly using the crimson set.  I did spray the set to moisture proof it out of curiosity for a fix, but I did not have to. 

What I am saying is that when you buy from Chess Bazaar, you will get a very nice set at a very competitive price.  And Chess Bazaar stands by their products. 

Forgot to mention:  Owners with the crimson set can send the "defective" half to CB for replacement.  The reason most of us do not want to go this route is the shipping cost.  But, note that CB will cover the shipping back to the customer and customer did not pay for shipping in the original purchase. 

Please do not read my writings as saying any of the manufacturers are selling inferior products.  I did not and I am not.

I did say that the quality of a set is directly proportional to the amount of work put into it as well as the quality of the materials and the worker's ability.

I also said that there has been a very large mark up on chess sets and that might explain why some companies, including CB, are so low priced.

And I also said that some places are small in workers and production.

If I said anything negative about CB it might be that they overtly copy other company products, even in name.

Eyechess, with all due respect, I also do not buy into the idea that you get what you pay for.  I am a fan of NOJ sets but they are no way worth more than twice the CB set.  The reason why NOJ sets are expensive is because the sets are made in Europe.  This is not a knock on NOJ; I am getting another NOJ set before end of the year.

And, unless you are an interllectual property attorney, I would not make allegations of intellectual property infringement.  IP law is a lot more complicated than that.

I never made any allegations of any legal improprieties.

From your latest writing it appears you are an attorney.  I simply recounted a story of Frank Camaratta stopping another company from copying his sets to the point where he actually received the copies, all of them.  That is not an opinion, but fact.

To say that one company is copying is no allegation of any illegal activity.  The copied names and sets are in public view.  

The House of Staunton has made reproductions, which is another term for copies.  Frank put individual and original details in those reproductions to the point that he could copyright them, another fact.

In this particular case, Chess Bazaar, they have not completely duplicated any one other set.  But they have used the same names Frank gave them.  The names are common terms, like Zagreb, so there is no infringement that I am aware of.  They also altered the name so it is not a complete duplicate.

Other companies haved copied to one degree or another.  Note that I have not said whether that is good or bad, just what it is.

Also, there are no Dubrovnik sets currently on the market that are of a comparable quality to Noj.  Yes it is more expensive because it is made in Europe.  However you cannot buy another make Dubrovnik of comparable quality for any lesser price, so you do get what you pay for.

Yes indeed.  There was an extreme amount of discussion on the 1849 Jaques reproduction set designed by Alan Dewey and very nicely executed by Chess Bazaar because it is interesting and desirable.

If you had noticed the topic "Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set" then you understand the reason for the number of postings and subject focus.

As for the ... you state the obvious, but not everyone has deep pockets and tastes differ when purchasing anything.  Let the individual consumer decide.

I don't particularly like or dislike Chess Bazaar.  To me they are another chess equipment retailer on the internet.  They have done some things that no other company appears to have done.  The big thing I see in their favor is they will customize a set for you to your specifications regarding differences in existing sets.  And they do it at a very reasonable price.  I also like the looks of the Chess box they sell with individual places for each piece.  They have one for sets up to 4" and one for 4" to 4.5" sets.  They are kind of pricey at over $100 but I don't see anyone else having them like this and this nice.

I just recalled that Noj also has offered to custom make chess sets for individuals.  I am sure their price will be higher and I don't think they would be able to readily get Rosewood or something other than what they currently use.

I just spent some time looking at the sets on The House of Chess site.  They have some really nice ones at very reasonable prices.  Loubalch has put pictures of their Yugo (Zagreb) set in Blood Rosewood.  I like the looks of that set quite a bit and it is also very well priced at under $150.  I find it interesting that the Blood Rosewood set is available from them only on eBay, while the other materials, including Ebony, are available on their web site.

Sure, they charge for shipping, but that's only for stuff under $99.  Anything higher has free shipping.  I wonder if the sets come as fast from them as from Chess Bazaar.

The House of Chess also has a lot of inexpensive sets.  They even have a cheaper and smaller sized Yugo (Zagreb) set that is well under $50.

I know that many people will not spend the extra money for the higher quality like Noj and HOS.  In all honesty it makes no difference to me why they won't spend it.  I know that until the dye problem occurred with the CB Crimson Dubrovnik, I was planning on buying one of them when they were offered again.  I just didn't want to spend the extra for what would be a novelty set.  You have to admit that Crimson is really a bright red and I don't know if my opponents would want to play rated chess with it.

Anyway, after time went by with no communication or solution from CB fixing the problem, and with that post from Gregor explaining about his retired father being one of the main reasons for them making the sets, I decided to bite the bullet and order the more expensive red set.  I also realized that their deep red staining will be very acceptable to my opponents when playing rated chess.

I want sets that are distinctive and fun to play with.  I see the Players Series, HOS set as one of those.  I also see Izmet's Best Chessmen Ever set as one along with the Noj Dubrovnik in both Walnut and red stained.  I also am seeing that House of Chess Yugo (Zagreb) set as a fun one to play with.  I have owned a HOS Zagreb '59 set in Rosewood for over 15 years and play with it frequently, at our local Barnes & Noble and other coffee houses.  It too is distinctive and fun.  Just this past Sunday I had it at our B & N and received no less than 2 compllments on the set from people there.  I bet the House of Chess set will get rave reviews as well.

Eyechess wrote: "I know that many people will not spend the extra money for the higher quality like Noj and HOS."

I have two sets, an ebonized Players series from HoS and a CB Zagreb in shesham/boxwood. The overall quality of the CB set is much better than the HoS one, which sports a number of tiny defects. However my CB set has the most serious (stupid) mistake in the ball finials of the white queens which aren't straight, otherwise it would have been a perfect set.

What HoS has going for them is that in my opinion, compared to CB, they have better designs. I think Chess Bazaar's improved Zagreb is a exception though, it has very nice lines, otherwice many of their designes are quite vulgar, at least to my eyes.

@Mazkor  All you need to do is ask for a couple new finials for your set and I am sure CB will get those in the mail to you at N/C.  I now put my finials on with teflon tape, a plumbers product, and always ask for the finials to come unattached.  Of course I am guessing they glue the Queen ball on but with a dremel took you might be able to drill it out. if you do not want to try that I am sure CB with send you another Queen for no charge WITHOUT you shipping the old one back. Some other companies people been bragging about have a policy of shipping all pieces back that need replacing, period end, no exceptions. Just saying 

I don't know what company you're talking about that has no exceptions and  all pieces must be sent back that need replacing.

I know that the 2 main companies I use and even the 3 others that I have used in the past, now that I think of it, have sent me replacement pieces free of charge without sending back the defective piece or pieces, no questions asked.  Sure, we needed to determine what the piece coloring was like so the piece they sent me would more perfectly match as Rosewood can have different degrees of darkness from one year to five or more years later.  With one set, I just took a picture of the dark pieces for matching.  With another I just needed to tell them the lot number on the box and they sent a new Queen, no questions asked and for free.  Yes, and that is with both of 2 companies.

In fact one of those companies just sent me 2 finials to replace ones that a friend broke off my Zagreb '59 set that I have owned for well over 10 years.  And, what do you know, they sent them to me for free with no questions asked.

Also, the removable finials on the sets I have purchased in the past have all fit perfectly with no need whatsoever for any meddling with.  We don't need no stinkin' badge,...err tape.  But I usually only buy from the quality companies...

I think NOJ is way more expensive of what it should be. If we where to compare chess sets just on base of their quality.

I think CB does hav a lot of desing problems, they haven't come with any design of their own. Everything is someones else design, and most of the time they just miss the mark on understanding what the design was about.

For example on the Dubronik case. Their problem is not that the set is not finished enougth, the problem is that it is not rustic enough. If I wanted a Doubonik with curved features and gratius profile I would have just get me a Zegret. The Dubronik set is mean to be rustic, do not round up the cuts. They should have focuse less in polishing the finishing and more in making more cuts, more "details". I am sure that the day CB decides to make a rustic Dubronick this debate of ours will be over.

Same problem with the Liberty, it try to be more sofisticate than what it should be. But it is not quite as sofisticated as it can be, it is not the Zegret of the Liberty set... so it is just a half way thing.

Sadly enough, the time CB invested on real design was with the 1849 set. They just get the best chess historian to help them with the design, and then give it to the most uneskiful woodcarver on the whole India. It ended up with a horse that can see the buggers inside it's own nostrils... one of many liberties the carver took with the original design. a HUGE dissapoinment.

By jove, you're right on the mark.

We have no perfect Dubrovnik set available when considering all factors including price.

I knew there was just something about the CB sets I didn't like but I couldn't put my finger on it.  Sure, I knew and commented about the lack of details on their Dubrovnik set, but I did not see the whole picture as you have.  Well done, sir.

I have looked at that 1849 set and know that they got that expert to help with the design.  However, I never really looked at pictures of the original or other sets of the same design to compare their set.

Their Zagreb set does look nice, though.  I like the way the Knights are made and look in the profile pictures they have on the site.  I'm not sure about how they look on the board during a game, though.  If anyone owns one, I would appreciate hearing from them about this set and how it plays on the board.

However, comparing that set to the House of Chess version, Yugo (Zagreb) set, I like that better.  And comparing the CB set to the original HOS Zagreb 59' I don't see any improvement to make me want to buy it.  I probably will buy a House of Chess Yugo (Zagreb) Blood Rosewood set.  I really like the looks of that one.

Just to chime in on Zagreb sets.....The set HOS has one for 1/2 price, the lacquered rosewood/boxwood set, looks so good I wanted to get a second set.   I can see where some may say it's too shiney and it is very shiney but I like it.  I would never use any of my "collectors" sets for tournament play anyways. Bringing one to the chess club or to a coffee shop for a casual & relaxed game, yes.

wiscmike, they did send me a replacement queen. But it was much taller with a base diameter equal to the king's, and with a larger darker ball finial. I thought they had sent a larger model by mistake but was told it came from the same lot. They actually offered to send me yet another white queen as well as two black ones to match my replacement queen (I would have had six queens in total!), but I turned this down as I'll rather have the same colour on the finials and bishops' tops, never mind that they aren't straight. Apparently they didn't have more queens like mine by the way, and my set was on a discount. Anyway they tried very hard to please me... The only thing that bugs me is the crap some chess suppliers come up with, "our sets are the best, nothing comes remotely close to the excellense of our work"-yada yada crap. HoS especially who even literally warned you on their site about sets from India, and their sets might even be made by the same people. It's comical.

Eyechess wrote: