Chess Sets, Price, & Quality

Recently there have been a number of people posting about whether the higher priced sets are worth the extra money or whether people should just buy the lower priced sets.  They are saying the quality difference is not enough for the extra charge.

Part of the topic is that there are a number of companies retailing the sets they make themselves.  Cutting out the middleman also cuts the middleman fee.  The result is that the manufacturer will make more money and the consumer will pay less money from this direct transaction.  Obviously buying direct from the manufacturer will give the best quality at the lowest cost when you compare the same quality sets.

First I need to discuss sets made of the highest quality compared to ones that are made of a somewhat lower quality compared to sets made of the lowest quality.  And yes, sets made in India are the vast majority of sets made and sold.  In fact India will produce sets of all qualities, depending on the manufacturer.

Noj is literally a one off in that no one outside of India makes sets of this high quality.  And Noj does not make sets of the classic Staunton design as you see made in India.  So Noj is not part of my discussion here as even the India manufacturers can not duplicate the Noj sets completely as the woods are different.  It is not fair to either Noj or any India carver to compare them in this manner.

I own something like 37 nice wood sets.  Only 6 of those are Noj, and not made in India.

Frank Camaratta actually started all this when he created The House of Staunton well over 25 years ago.  Frank went to India and made contracts with some of their better manufacturers.  He provided the details and specifics for the pieces and even insisted on the wood quality.  I know this because I spoke with him on the phone quite a bit and he would tell me of the sets that were being created and made as it happened.  I bought a lot of these sets from him just before they were released to shortly after.  And the Frank designed sets were, and still are, heads and shoulders above all others in quality.

However, this is the end of 2019 and things have changed.  We do see even these better manufacturers selling directly.  You will note that for the most part, they are not copying the Camaratta designs.  Frank sold HoS about 15 years ago, but you will see him still designing some sets, of which 2 are currently my Staunton favorites.

Not too long ago, 4 years at the most, The House of Staunton had about 146 set series for sale.  Today that number is well over 200.  And a number of those original Camaratta designs have been discontinued.

What this tells me is that Shawn, the current owner, is buying a lot of the sets they sell, already designed and created by India manufacturers.

Carl of Official Staunton also has had sets made to his specifications, as Frank has done.

So there are some specific sets are worth more for their quality.  But these sets are still reasonably priced.  All my favorite Staunton sets cost between $220 and $370.

Of course I own lesser expensive sets that all cost less than $200.  Those sets are very nice and I use them all for variation.

But, those sets above $200 all have noticeable quality improvements to the lesser expensive ones.

Realize, my friends, that we are not talking about what we need, but what we want and enjoy.

Value, best quality at the lowest price, has always meant a lot to me.  So, I understand where some of these guys, like Sound67, are coming from.

I realized today that I started coming to this forum 5 years ago, November of 2014.  At the time I only owned 9 wood sets.  Today it is over 37, thanks to the postings on this forum.

I also remember that Chess Bazaar was the only company that was selling direct from the manufacturer to the consumer.  And they did have a high percentage of problems with what they sold.  Today, you no longer see the problems they once produced.  And their carvings are indeed better and more sophisticated than they were back then.  And back then their prices were really low.  Today their prices are a bit higher but still relatively lower than most of the retailers we see.

Also today, we see a lot more of the India manufacturers selling direct.  And there are a couple of them selling higher quality products.

The thing I don't like is that many people think that the lower quality products have more value to them than the higher priced ones.  Sound67 is just one of those saying that they ban buy many more sets for the money at a good quality than some of the more pricier sets.  Sure, he does exaggerate his numbers to make the higher priced ones look way too high.

But what he and a number of others don't address or perhaps realize is that when you examine those higher priced and higher quality sets, like Frank Camaratta's (HoS) Craftsman Serties set, which I did get for about $320 shipped, the quality is obviously a lot better than the lower priced things you see from these direct sell places.

Eye it's a sign of the time's ! for so many the the real  thing cost so much now or is very rare ?

Would like a noj set but to  spent let say 1000k euros for a remake in the way I would like is just too much .

After tax & shipping  .

When it comes to price & quality ratio. I want a set that isn't overly carved and elaborate. My price thresh hold is $150'ish. Even that is kind of hard for me to pay out. Since there are plenty of sets out there that meet that budget line with a level of quality that is acceptable with me. I tend to stick with it. I want to play with my sets and not worry about breakage. Breakage meaning breaking a piece from a high dollar set and trying to get a replacement that just doesn't match up exactly with the original set. Not to mention that pieces and sets can grow legs and happen to disappear from tournaments. I want simple affordable and quality when it comes to my chess sets.

House of Chess in my opinion has what I look for in sets. Very good quality with the prices I am at ease with paying. Yes they may not have the same level of selection as Chess Bazaar has but HoC has a better price point for me when it comes to wooden sets. I own 6 sets from them and never really had an issues with quality. One set had a few tool marks on the Queens crown but was quickly replaced.

Well, you see talking about lower priced or economy sets.  What you might be surprised is that there are some House of Staunton sets, in this lower price class, that are very competitive in price and can even be of a better quality than these lower priced, direct from India manufacturers offer. 

Chess Bazaar, for example, had really low prices a number of years ago.  Yes, this is also when they had the quality and service problems.  In the last year or more their prices increased.  Their quality and customer service also improved.  But their prices are no longer as cheap either.  

I bought a couple of sets from The House of Chess.  They do have good quality.

At this time there are a number of these direct from India companies.  However you do not see higher quality at discounted prices.  These direct companies must be making more profit.  If they were not there is no way The House of Staunton, a reseller that has economy sets to sell, could compete in price and quality.  And they certainly are at this time.

Another point is there are some design sets that are only available from one or so places.  I still cannot find sets from these direct places that compete with sets designed by and then made for Frank Camaratta and then sold by The House of Staunton.

I like Chess Bazaar, believe it or not.  I bought and own 5 sets from them.  I have never had a problem with any of their products or service even in the time of all the problems you read about on this forum.

They have improved their quality a lot in the past.  And yes they are offering a lot of sets.  I just looked and they, CB, offer 256 sets.  House of Staunton offers 252.  So neither one is offering a lot more than the other.  CB has the highest price, for a single set at $636 or so.  Of course HoS has their top price a lot higher than that.

I still go for the Frank Camaratta design as those sets are always the best in everything.

I will only add that when trying to compare apples to apples I can use the Dubrovnik set as an example. I dont see a quality difference between Chessbazzar and HoS. By quality I mean the actual carving detail, wood and finish. The big difference was in actual design choices.  The NOJ Minceta set is the the one where I can say looks and feels more refined.

That is my picture of a Sheesham & Boxwood Zagreb set on a jig saw tournament size board. I got the set from wholesalechess.com and the board from chessgamesshop.com   

What I always think when looking at sets either sold from India (such as Chessbazaar obviously) or the HoJ, Jacques, whatever, I think not about what "company" sells them directly, but whom they hire to do the actual physical carving of the pieces. I wish I knew how much approximately each of those sellers pays the actual craftsmen, regardless of what company tag is on the set. I have read somewhere that HoJ, Jacques of London, and other companies whose brands are founded in Europe also hire manual labor in India and then just package it in Europe. I would be very unhappy if they ripped off the manual laborers while taking a large portion of profit to themselves.

Hello. Where would one be able to sell a life size teak wood chess set . Purchased 15 years ago Indonesia. The king stands 48 inches and the diameter is 12 inches . 

Hey Eye, everyone. I don't think that what's been discussed so far is the only thing that's going on. In one of the other threads, Carl came on and talked about price and why their sets cost what they cost. However, I've noticed that the prices keep rising, pretty steadily, for many retailers based in the west. I've talked about OS in the other thread, so I won't get into that again, but have any of you recently checked out Jaques? Not the antique ones but the modern/new ones. I was interested in one of the sets they were selling maybe 2 years ago or so. That design cost 600-700 GBP then. The price made me think twice, though it was really a lovely looking set. That set is now 1200 GBP. So what gives?

I think what we have these days is manufacturers supplying so much demand that in order to keep afloat retailers here have to crank up their prices ridiculously. Noj did this also, since their dubrovniks were originally (I think) about 200 euro cheaper, before tax. However, Noj is supplying a product that is extraordinary and one of a kind in the market today, so like Eyechess, I'm inclined to leave them out of the discussion.

I've seen the same designs get more and more expensive, and old designs simply disappear to feature something new that looks remarkably similar but for double the cost. I don't know what to think of these developments, really.

@Maik1988 I've only been buying chess stuff for less than 2 years. To me the prices are fairly consistent overall. There are some that have gone up and others that have not.

I remember reading that Noj raised their prices once or twice prior to when I purchased my 1950 set recently. I think I read somewhere that the price of a Dubrovnik 1950 set was around 400 Euro before. It is now 648 Euro for the brown-stained version. Also, I remember reading about OS prices for reproduction of 3.5" Jaques sets being in the 200 GBP range around 2017 or so. The set I bought recently was 349 GBP. OS constantly changes their designs which I hate. Why change the design if people like it. I also read that CB's prices increases over the last few years along with the quality.

At the same time, I have not noticed increases with sets from HoS or Chesshouse being more expensive since the beginning of 2019/end of 2018. Also, I see new sets from direct manufacturers being pretty inexpensive. The SC 3.5" Morphy is less than $200 USD on *bay and the 3.75" 1849 set also from SC is $210 USD. The Chavet set from CE is $169. I can't say the prices for these are going up for those. 

Do you think this is an industry-wide issue?

@MCH818: I've noticed it less for the vendors that offer a range of quality and price points. OS and Jaques sort of market themselves as catering to those looking for high quality at a high price. I guess they're a bit more narrow in their business model than HoS and CB, for instance. Jaques especially used to carry entry level sets from 300 GBP and up. Now the cheapest you'll find on there is a cool thousand. I just find this strange, especially since, as I've remarked, I had contact with somebody there about a luxury set that was well under 1000 GBP and that's no more.

@Maik1988 Do you think maybe Jaques is trying to separate themselves because lower-end market is so cut-throat?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UesVNS7uEyQ

Making chess sets in India. I thought someone might find it interesting.

The Indian chess manufacturers are wholesale to these retail companies. Mass production brings cost down. The manufacturers are paid enough to make a profit and pay their overhead. Things are cheaper in India due to employment regulations, taxes, goods. The price you pay through a retailer. Goes 100% to the retailer. To make them a profit and cover their overhead costs. Me personally once Indian manufacturers opened up their products to the world. It provided me with a more affordable chess set. That otherwise I would not have been able to afford through a retailer. When it comes to wooden chess sets. I primarily go direct and not through a retailer. Now I will go retail if the set I want isn't available through direct Indian manufacturer.   

If that's your opinion that is fine.

Hi. I play chess (badly) and have been gifted a chess set that looks quite expensive. Its made by C+F and is a golf set. Pewter pieces I think all set up on a handmade board from Italy. Thats about as much as I know. Does anyone have an educated guess what it's worth? Thanks