Do you prefer hand made, or automated machine made boards and pieces?

I just discovered that they have CNC lathes. The idea of a cnc lathe somehow breaks my heart. I always imagined every perfect pawn done by hand. Now, knowing they could be shot out of the CNC lathe, takes a little magic away for me.  (I've never used a lathe, so maybe this is old news) and it got me wondering. How many people really still value a hand made, vs automated construction process in their equipment? 

Both builds require machines of course, but some of those machines are run by the machine and its programs, while the others are controlled by hand. 

So, all things equal, no obvious flaws, price is the same, would you lean towards and hand made vs machine made set? If any of those variables change, which would cause you to lean towards a different choice?

For me, it's handmade because I value the specific skillset of a handmade setup. The CNC requires computer skills (from what I've heard, it's a significant amount of time to setup) so it's still a skilled build, but just a different type. 

You can take it all the way down to the construction of the knights. If I can buy a set with knights that are truly hand carved (no hand held power carvers) I would buy that set, because of the understanding and respect for the difficulty of a very specific task. 

All things equal and it's made by a master carver then hand made for sure. By a trainee then machine

But by a master carver, I wouldn't even mind paying more as I appreciate the skill it takes to make them.

I hate to further ruin the magic for you, but many (if not most) typical "handmade" chess manufacturers use templated chisels to form the pieces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUZHk1fofkA

Video courtesy of Chess Empire. 

They press a templated chisel that has the outline of the chess piece into the spinning wood and voila a perfectly formed 99% exact replica of the template piece. There is some level of skill needed, but far from "Noj-level". Which is reflected in the price.

Sub $100 set manufacturers like Roz and Chavet use turning machines that are even more automated to pump them out. 

Uhm...even with template chisel I see that still as handmade in general as one still has to use feel to press it.

@mr Sound true...I do prefer running hot water these days lol

I had a similar slight "heartbreak" moment a couple of years ago when I watched a video like the one Pawnerai posted of someone "hand carving" a chess set on a lathe using template blades. Up until that point I had assumed that every piece was cut by a master craftsman with a keen eye, a steady hand, and a chisel fresh from the strop.

I've got into using a CNC in the past year (still amateur) and I've been surprised at how much nuance there is in designing the toolpaths correctly to get nice results – there are a great many variables to control which I never expected before I started to make simple designs, and I quickly realised how easy it is to do something badly. You really have to learn to control the machine properly, just as you need to learn the skill to control a chisel properly. As you say, skill and design work still go into it, it's just a different type. To me, it's just another woodworking tool to be used. (It's the 3D printed plastic chess pieces that make me sick!)

From reading the forum here it seems like people value consistency and flawless pieces. There are many complaints about a piece leaning, cracking, having even the tiniest inconsistency in shaping, or even showing an inconsistency in the grain. It seems to me that "skills" important in producing high quality chess sets are to have good quality control procedures. The particular way the pieces are shaped is just a means to an end, and if you want something nice it's going to be "automated" to some extent.

@Pawnerai I did see that video with the template chisel, strangely, I thought of that as an innovative and useful technique. I didn't immediately feel resistance to it. It makes you wonder what level of tooling changes the pieces altogether. I think everyone wants sets that are as close to flawless as possible, 99% of the time. That kinda makes it hard to develop new wood turners. I watched a guy turn a pawn with nothing but chisels of different style. 30 minut s of work plus it still needed to be finished. He took it off and used digital calipers repeatedly to verify the correct dimensions. That's a lot of time for one piece!

@funkyoffortythousandyears I agree. The CNC skills are not to be scoffed at! I think its a bit of a romanticized feeling, thinking of the most basic tools creating something so beautiful. Gotta hold tight to that for as long as I can!

The best set ever is Andy Dufresne's one from The Shawshank Redemption – hand carved from stones using an abrasive cloth over the course of twenty years in a prison cell.

It's available. It just comes at a price. $800 price vs $150 for a comparable looking set. Choice in the marketplace is a wonderful thing.

Someone posted on this forum a link to a video of a knight being made using CNC. The piece was well done but I still appreciate the craftsmanship of hand carved pieces, even if some special tools or machinery is involved. Even with bishops on lathes, there is still a certain level of human judgment and "aftercare." To the extent there are slight imperfections, I would choose character over the sterility of removing humans from the core of the creative process.

Is it really "hand made" if it was turned on a lathe?

I just can't see the distinction between someone using a templated chisel vs a CNC on a lathe, as far as "skill" goes. 

If anything, the CNC is much safer for the worker, since lathes are pretty dangerous stuff.

I guess it is a matter of degree. I have a "hand made" bicycle frame. The tubes and lugs that the builder joins together were manufactured. I assume that the frame was painted in part with a sprayer instead of a brush. 

@richardhg CNC knights? My soul just died! I actually look for variation in my knights, it's part of what I like about them. @ binomine Hand made is always up to the users decision. If a table saw was used, was it hand made? If the lathe is used, I still consider it handmade. For some, I can imagine a cnc lathe is still operated by the fingers that typed the code, so it's a variation of hand made. Safety though, isn't something I worry about. If the craftsman chose that pursuit, I'm happy bowing out so they can choose their safety measures.

CNC Knight

For me, I don't mind if it is CNC cut, cut using templates, or fully handmade. I only care that the final product looks like the advertised product photos.

[Edit] I love old Jaques sets. Imagine if someone 3d scanned the original Crummiller 1849 4.4" set and then CNC cut the entire set to order. I would buy that in an instant without hesitation.

Plus 1 for MCH's comment!

C.F. Martin Guitars,manufactured since 1833(considered the gold standard in factory built /ultra high quality instruments) use new tech as well as hand work.The newer tech saves on time and offers extremely close tolerances.

The lathe itself is relatively old technology. Bronze Age, I think. It's a solidly "traditional craft" tool and if you want something to be round, rather than vaguely round-ish, use of a lathe is pretty much inevitable. I would be astonished if anyone making chess pieces didn't make extensive use of a lathe, and honestly I'd be questioning their expertise.

But the question of when it stops being "handmade" is an interesting one. I think the use of a shaped tool on a lathe is about as far as handmaking goes in my mind. The tool that actually carves the wood has to be held by a human hand, rather than by a robot.

I learned fairly recently about the Japanese word "wabi" and the associated concept: that imperfections can be what makes something beautiful. I think anyone who instinctively prefers the handmade will feel some sympathy with that idea.

The knowledge that each piece is unique, even if almost imperceptibly so, somehow makes them more attractive, I think. After all, if you want absolute uniformity in your pieces, you probably shouldn't be getting wood pieces anyway: plastic is much more reliable.

But there is also a floor to the level of quality I'm prepared to accept. In reality, high-quality handmade products will almost always be more expensive than products of similar quality made by automated means, and that can't be ignored in the real world.

Realistically then I'm likely to end up with a collection which has one or two standout elements which are "handmade", but I'll have been rather less fussy about the majority of it.

I wouldn't mind CNC made pieces.  Its actually interesting juxtaposing this thread with the scores of threads complaining about the slightest variances that are intrinsic to handmade things.  How many times have people complained about the very edges of boards not perfectly aligning or the weight differentials between pieces is more than X percentage.   First off the high skilled craftsmen only make the knights anyway. The other pieces in a set are pumped out by lower skilled craftsmen who it has already been pointed out use templates to make the pieces anyway.   For me personally I could get enough uniqueness from the woods themselves.  Also humans will still be needed to sand and finish the pieces.  

It would actually be really nice if there was someone who did CNC chess stuff.  Lets say a rook, knight or any piece from a discontinued set was cracked or lost.  You could send another knight or pawn or rook the the CNC Chess place and they could make a copy of the piece.  It might be tough matching up the wood but at least you will have a functional chess set again.  

I definitely agree with you here. There's nothing elegant to me about a poorly made set, even if it's handmade. TBH when I play I'm really not picky about what I'm using. I can play on a wide range of sets without much stress. I just really appreciate the nice ones!