Free Engine

Hey all,

I'm looking to really take a more serious approach to learning chess, and so am looking for a free chess engine to use for the time being.

I've heard Rybka is a good free engine, but when I went to the Rybka site, it said the demo (free downloadable) version only goes to a depth of 2, which seems low...

Any other good options out there?

there's lot's of free engines, http://freechess.50webs.com/index.html it's your pick...

SensFan33, you must have misread, Rybka 2.2n2 is 3110 elo and is the strongest free engine out there. It goes way beyond depth=2.

If you really want something else, Crafty at elo 2704 is quite popular.

By the way, you don't have to go by what you hear is good, there's a rating list:

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

I'm curently using ChessBase Light 2007 to analyze my games with Fritz 5.32 (both are free).  What is the depth that I should use when I analyze my games at the start, middle, and end game?  I'm wondering because I know that some engines are good at one but not always at the other.

Also, is Fritz 5.32 good enough for this type of thing?  My intend is to get engine that will be able to analyze games at IM level or even GM.  How good is Fritz 5.32?  Also, if Fritz 5.32 is not good enough, what should I get?  How do the newer versions of Fritz compare?

Any help will be appreciated

Thanks again.

Rybka 3, the newest version, is not free. The older, less effecient one is, not that it's anything to joke around with.

And as for depth, 6 plies is usually a decent amount. Some GMs think at around 11-12 plies for certain moves, but a computer between 5 and 10 plies is almost undefeatable.

Maciek> get engine that will be able to analyze games at IM level or even GM

Fritz 5.32 is rated 2672... that's a computer rating, not a FIDE rating. It's much weaker than the free Rybka engine but strong enough to identify your tactical mistakes and beat IMs. Unfortunately, engines do not explain games at the GM-, IM-, expert-, or even c-level. But they often find the best move! An important distinction to note.

Maciek> depth that I should use when I analyze my games

For tactics a few seconds/position (10-12 ply) is usually enough.

If you want analysis of openings, endgames, or strategic positions get a stronger engine (like free or pay Rybka) and give it overnight (a few minutes per position). It takes free Rybka about 30 seconds and Fritz about 2 minutes on my computer to suggest the positional ideas that an IM sees instantly. Opening and endgame books, coaches, and the game analysis forum are superior because they can explain why moves are good. But the engine, given enough time, is usually correct when it tells you the best move.

Fritz 5.32 is an ancient engine. This does not mean it is weak (it will defeat quite easily any GM), but it might be slow compared to a modern engine. Alternatives like Fruit or Toga are both free, strong and fast.

It's good to use an engine to show your tactical mistakes. But you will never learn strategic ideas (like how to play against an IQP) from an engine. Because an engine simply knows nothing about chess, it's just a machine which computes (by brute force) the best move.

Thanks guys for your reply.

One correction, ChessBase Light 2007 uses Fritz 6, my mistake.  I just started looking into game analysis and only went through few games with depth 14, so I think that should be good enough.

What would you guys suggest is the best tool for the job without spending to much money but with good results.  From what costelus said, it seems that the difference between different versions is speed (efficiency) so I don't really need Fritz 11 for $50 but should be OK with others (for example Fritz 8 or 9 for much less $).  I will try the free Ribka 2.2n2 but can anyone give me some info on it, rating and so on.

Thanks in advance

Pay Rybka is 3228. Free Rybka is 3109. Fritz 11 is 3094. Fritz 9 is 2842. Fritz 8 is 2798. See:

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

A key reason I bought commercial Rybka wasn't for the extra 100 elo, but rather for the user-interface (Aquarium GUI from Convekta or Fritz GUI from Chessbase). The GUI makes analysis a snap and includes IDeA (which shows why other lines don't work) and Randomizer (which determines whether an endgame is won/drawn/lost by playing it out quickly and repeatedly). Note, these GUI features only fully work with Rybka3.

I have been using the Free Rybka engine, with the Arena GUI (which I heard was the best).  I like all of the features, but the one feature I would REALLY like seems to be missing, unfortunately, though I would have thought it would be the simplest.

I can't seem to find an option to just evaluate the current position, without telling me about the lines.  If I hit the 'Analyze' button, it tells me the best line starts with move X (+- Y.YY).  Is there not an option to get an output similar to what the computer analysis on this site, or Computer Workout, gives?  Not to mention that the rating outputs assigned to the move seem to be from the perspective of the player whose move it was, and not + meaning White.

Am I asking for too much?  Does another engine/GUI have the feature I am looking for?

RTFM

SensFan33> Arena GUI (which I heard was the best). 

It's not the best, it's the best free GUI. The Aquarium and Fritz GUIs are superior in functionality and ease-of-use, but you have to spend money for those.

SensFan33, That would be a GUI feature, not an engine feature. And yes, I know the Arena, Aquarium, and Fritz GUIs all can do that--although I don't have a copy of Arena installed on this computer to tell you the steps. Try the manual.

Alright, thanks, likesforests.

You can go to ICC(Internet Chess Club) and download Dasher.It's really good in chess.You can't defeat him easily.Try it!

number of downloads talk a different language. Also the number of moves in a gameis not limited in Arena. See news item 156 on the Arena page. ...

Michael

Join the Arena. Mind the Base

http://www.playwitharena.com

Apetronix> number of downloads talk a different language.

But # of downloads is a silly metric because Fritz is distributed by DVD rather than by download. In fact, I've downloaded Arena 4 times and Fritz 0 times.

Regarding the superior functionality, in the last year the Aquarium and Fritz GUIs have added features called IDeA/Shared Analysis and Monte Carlo/Randomizer. These features are very useful and most engine users have been discussing them. What features has Arena added in the past year that you feel corresponds to them?

Again, Arena is in my opinion the best free product out there. But of course well-done commercial products are going to be a bit better.

 Ask Vas to release to release the UCI3 protocol, which he promissed to do and we will add Monte Carlo to Arena too. By they way do you know of any position where Monte Carlo brings a solution and common search does not ? In the interview I made with Vas no such position has been provided, so having something that doen't really work is of no use. As Vas said in the interview Arena is jis interface he loves most, like it or not that's it.

Arena Citrine support, REAL DGT support, support of decent chess servers where sysops don't throw you out for mentioning bugs, FRC support, first to introduce UCI support. Arena will support the new DCS board to be relased soon (see news section on the Arena page, news item 172). ChessBase didn't even know about the project and we already contacted the author. Arena doesn't "introduce" any chess rules like the new 290 moves draw rule (news item 156 on the Arena page).   We do tell our users about the bugs, ChessBase deletes negative customer opinions on Amazon... Here is something else Fritz, an engine that costs 50 Euros does:

http://www.matplus.net/pub/start.php?px=1238866571&app=forum&act=posts&fid=it&tid=500

ChessBase doen't like this and tires to stop their users knowing this. Decent free engines like YACE will find the solution. Arena doesn't steal time from your engine (try ChestUCI and see what I am talking about)... Did I say Arena is free ?

It's your money, you can buy buggy ChessBase software of course. I would go with Arena, SCID, DGT, Citrine and some luxury chess  pieces for the Citrine from ChessBaron.

Aquarium, like the other new Office Software, the new look does not reach the quality of the engine. Would be nice as a free software but not if you need to pay for it. at least their service is better than ChessBase.

Apetronix> Ask Vas to release to release the UCI3 protocol... and

So, Arena can't support IDeA and Monte Carlo because Vas hasn't released the UCI3 protocol to the project. He's apparently released it to the two commercial vendors.

I understand, maybe it's unfair, but as a consumer the final analysis is that Arena is good but lacks functions its commercial competitors have.

Apetronix> [...] and we will add Monte Carlo

Oh! So you're an Arena developer. Kudos for providing a good, free product.

Apetronix> By they way do you know of any position where Monte Carlo brings a solution and common search does not ?

I've encountered many positions where IDeA and Monte Carlo gave me insights into a position where Infinite Analysis does not.

First, in endgames you often see Infinite Analysis produce a result of "+1.15". A very common human question is, is the position won or drawn? Monte Carlo will tell you with a high probability of accuracy. Infinite Analysis will not.

Second, if I want to understand a position, leaving Infinite Analysis running overnight would tell me the best line. IDeA will show that, but also why other reasonable move by me and my opponent don't fare as well, and the long-term consequences.

Your wording side-steps these key advantages of IDeA and Monte Carlo, the reason players of all ratings use it, and you would add it, given a chance.

Apetronix> It's your money, you can buy buggy ChessBase software of course.

I got it as a gift, actually. For me, Chessbase crashes less often than Arena, your mileage may vary. The Fritz GUI hits a bug if a game goes to 290 moves? Good to know. If one of my games every goes that far, I'll use Aquarium for its analysis.

Apetronix> I would go with Arena, SCID, DGT, Citrine and some luxury chess  pieces for the Citrine from ChessBaron.

Arena/SCID was my solution. Now I have Chessbase, Deep Rybka 3, Aquarium, and Fritz. If you're on a budget I recommend the free software--it's enough. It's great that folks developed Arena/SCID and gave them away! Every professional player I've met... granted that's no more than a dozen or so at this point... uses Chessbase or Convekta products. After seeing how quickly they can answer my chess questions, I don't plan to go back.