The felt looks to be 'wrong' to me.
As far as lozenges are concerned, they often came off and these early Jaques rarely had more than a few left. There was a well known chess dealer in Portobello road who kept a saucer of lozenges in his shop to add a few to any likely sets which came through his hands. He at least didn't put Indian knights heads on early ivory Jaques sets and then make up a faux classification system to justify it.
Yes those look right to me. right baize and so on.
Prof. sir Alan Fersht has a list of the dates according to the misprints ('5' wrong way round etc) on the lozenges
jjrehp - how do you come to that conclusion? I looked at the extra photos and they appear correct to me, and they appear to match the box lining baize as well...
It seems like these sets are important enough and popular enough to warrant their own thread. I'm especially interested in discussing the 4.4" club sized sets made from 1849 til the early 1900s. It seems these sets are the "Ultimate" chess set to own in many people's opinion, including my own. But if you think otherwise I'd love to hear your opinion about it!
Now, real vintage Jaques sets range in price from "whoah that's expensive" to "that's more than I make in a year". If you can find them for sale. For reference, here is the original 1849 set, photo credit Jon Crumiller from crumiller.com:
There are several reproductions available on the internet right now. Let's examine them, and talk about the accuracy, cost, and any personal experiences.
The Chesss Piece offers this set:
http://www.thechesspiece.com/proddetail.asp?prod=The-Original-Staunton-antiqued-in-ebony-and-antiqued-boxwood
Looks like a pretty good match. The Queen is appropriately short, as is the Rook. And at 84 ounces it is well weighted, as it should be according to Alan Dewey who calls the original "massively weighted" (I don't know the actual weight of the real Jaques). The antiqued wood is a nice touch. Price is $399. A little high, but reasonable.
Next is The Chess Store's "1849 Heirloom Staunton Chess Set" in antiqued boxwood and ebony.
Note here that the Rook is incorrectly taller than the Knight. The only Jacques sets with tall Rooks like this were made of ivory rather than wood. Perhaps they used an ivory set as reference material. So it is up to the buyer to decide how he likes it. The same is true here for the Queen being almost as tall as the king. The overall weight for this set is not listed, but there are good reviews on the site. Note also that The Chess Store offers 1850 and 1851 varieties of this design with small differences. The prices range from $200 to $600, with the seeminly unpopular 1851 being offered in the 4" size at the lowest price (perhaps because of the rather fat jowled knight piece).
House of Staunton offers its version, called "The Collector Series".
http://www.houseofstaunton.com/the-collector-series-luxury-chess-set-4-4-king.html
Not as explicitly marketed as a reproduction, but nonetheless the marketing materials reference " The Collector Series Luxury Chess set has been crafted to replicate the design and proportions of the original Staunton pattern Chessmen, registered by Nathaniel Cooke in March of 1849 and first manufactured by Jaques of London in September 1849". This set is unique among the options here in that it is readily available in Boxwood and Shesham in addition to the standard boxwood/ebony combo. There is a lot to be said about House of Staunton in terms of quality and communication, and I recommend you read some of the other threads in this forum to make your conclusions. The price here is $799. Quite high for a set that doesn't truly replicate the pieces to the level of the others shown here. But HOS pieces have their own pedigree at this point, especially this series, and it will be a numbered set. Note that this set does include the Kingside Rook and Knight stamping, not available on any other set featured so far.
Chess Bazaar has entered the market with its attempt at a true 1849 restoration, and it is looking good so far.
http://www.chessbazaar.com/the-reproduction-staunton-series-1849-j-jaques-pattern-chess-pieces-in-antiqued-box-wood-ebony-4-4-king.html
Rumor has it this set is being refined with the advisory of reknowned master wood turner, restorer, and chess historian Alan Dewey. If this is true this set could surpass all others. But that remains to be seen. At $250 the price is certainly right, and there is even the option for non-antiqued boxwood if you really want the real deal and want to wait around 100 years for the proper patina to set in ;). The set weight of 77 ounces is nothing to sneer at, but couldn't it be heavier? (or perhaps the old Jaques were lighter than I think?).
Finally there is a lesser known company out there called Amritsar Ivory Works. They do not have much of an online presence, instead serving as a manufacturer for some of the bigger chess distributors around the world. However, after a little communication with the owner, he sent me this interesting photograph:
Now it is my sneaking suspicion that this is a "real" Jaques set, in that Amritsar is the company making the officially licensed reproductions for Jaques (I'll get to that in a moment!). The only thing missing is the stamp on the bottom of each king, the Kingside Rook and Knight Stamps, and all the fancy accoutrements that come along with the ones you buy straight from Jaques. This set has also been given the antiqued wood appearance treatment, but seemingly to a much more convincing degree. It really looks a century old!
Speaking of real Jaques...
http://www.jaqueslondon.co.uk/staunton-chess-set-mahogany.html
If you want to dig deep in your pockets you can own an official Jaques continuation of the 1849 pattern. Not a reproduction (no antiqued wood), but the same set, only made 165 years after. The accuracy seems good, but not perfect, and certainly not as close as some of the others here. Especially look at the pawns. Those colllars look far too sturdy. Price is £2,999.99, or $5,142. Yikes. But something tells me these photos might be misleading, and the reality is you're going to get the same set from Amritsar I linked above, which although it might be very nice and amazingly accurate, I don't see how anyone can justify the price for what amounts to a piece of paper and a little stamp.
And of course, the real deal:
Another 1849, this time owned by Alan Dewey. Occasionally he restores old sets and sells them on his ebay site. The price matches the quality of his work, which is to say it is up to a very high standard. But still less than the $5k you're going to spend on buying a new Jaques. Worth it? Worth every penny imo. If I had the cash I'd buy from him in a second.
So what do you guys think? See anything I'm dead wrong about? Are you as obsessed with this particular set as I am? Or do you hate it? Any experiences playing on one?
Actually HOS does make an exact Reproduction of some of some of the Jaques of London sets -- I want to say 1894 - 1895, and a few others. Their Collector's Series is "based" upon the Jaques of London sets and is a close reproduction there of with a "few improvements". Not only do they have it in the 4.4" version, but also in a 4.0". I have one of their 4.0" Collector Sets in Boxwood and Rosewood and it is beautiful!!!
This confirms once and for all how much of a rip off the 4.4" House of Staunton "1849 Staunton Series Luxury Chess Pieces" are. This auction ended on 2565 Euros, which is almost exactly $3000, the asking price of the HOS set.
I know which set I'd rather have..
Frank has made a lot of money by such things.
Frank has made a lot of money on Chess sets. In my experience with him when he owned The House of Staunton he was quite rigid on his prices and the discounts he offered were tightly controlled and not big discounts.
However, no one is forcing anyone else to pay these high prices. So he's not really ripping anyone off. If you don't want to pay that much then don't.
I just had a thought in all this. Look at what you are paying for and then assess if it's worth the money charged. Frank has been the wholesale supplier for Jaques for a number of years. Yes, in the late 1990's and possibly up to now, the Jaques sets are made in India. So the woods are woods that they get in India. Yes, they age the woods correctly and pick the best quality wood for the pieces, but that is certainly part of the higher cost.
If you were to buy a Jaques set today, you would find it to be very similar in quality to sets sold by The House of Staunton and The Official Staunton Company. We know that Carl uses the same manufacturers that Frank uses.
I bet if you handled one of these $3500, new HoS sets, you would agree that they are of a very high quality. And if you want a set to use for play or otherwise in a nice setting, this set would be a good value.
When buying antique Chess sets you pay because of the set's age. Yes, if the pieces are in good shape that will command a higher price. And the older the set the more it will cost as well.
So the question becomes, "What is it that you value in a Chess set?"
If you value a set for playing aesthetics and "playability" (which take into account the heft, balance and dimensions of the pieces for handling during play) then you will pay more for those qualities.
If you value a set for collectability with its age and provenance then that is what you go after.
Personally, I am a player and feel these higher priced sets are not for me. Yes, that $3500 reproduction is probably a nice one, but I don't value any Chess set that high for my personal use. I have a HoS Morphy Series, 4.0", Blood Rosewood set that I bought at a hefty discount just after Shawn bought the company from Frank. I considered selling that set when I decided to trim back my collection. I put the set on a nice board to take pictures and realized, once again, that this is a very nice set. And if I got rid of it and then later decided to replace it, I would spend more money than I would for any set and therefore would not be able to replace it by my own value standards. So I kept that set and plan on using it in the Spring when we have our City Championship event which is one game every two weeks.
Of course, if someone wants to gift me that HoS $3500 set, in Blood Rosewood of course, or even a nice tournament, antique Jaques set, I would gladly accept them and even play with them in rated events, as I am a Chess player not collector per se.
Frank has made a lot of money on Chess sets. In my experience with him when he owned The House of Staunton he was quite rigid on his prices and the discounts he offered were tightly controlled and not big discounts.
However, no one is forcing anyone else to pay these high prices. So he's not really ripping anyone off. If you don't want to pay that much then don't.
I just had a thought in all this. Look at what you are paying for and then assess if it's worth the money charged. Frank has been the wholesale supplier for Jaques for a number of years. Yes, in the late 1990's and possibly up to now, the Jaques sets are made in India. So the woods are woods that they get in India. Yes, they age the woods correctly and pick the best quality wood for the pieces, but that is certainly part of the higher cost.
If you were to buy a Jaques set today, you would find it to be very similar in quality to sets sold by The House of Staunton and The Official Staunton Company. We know that Carl uses the same manufacturers that Frank uses.
I bet if you handled one of these $3500, new HoS sets, you would agree that they are of a very high quality. And if you want a set to use for play or otherwise in a nice setting, this set would be a good value.
When buying antique Chess sets you pay because of the set's age. Yes, if the pieces are in good shape that will command a higher price. And the older the set the more it will cost as well.
So the question becomes, "What is it that you value in a Chess set?"
If you value a set for playing aesthetics and "playability" (which take into account the heft, balance and dimensions of the pieces for handling during play) then you will pay more for those qualities.
If you value a set for collectability with its age and provenance then that is what you go after.
Personally, I am a player and feel these higher priced sets are not for me. Yes, that $3500 reproduction is probably a nice one, but I don't value any Chess set that high for my personal use. I have a HoS Morphy Series, 4.0", Blood Rosewood set that I bought at a hefty discount just after Shawn bought the company from Frank. I considered selling that set when I decided to trim back my collection. I put the set on a nice board to take pictures and realized, once again, that this is a very nice set. And if I got rid of it and then later decided to replace it, I would spend more money than I would for any set and therefore would not be able to replace it by my own value standards. So I kept that set and plan on using it in the Spring when we have our City Championship event which is one game every two weeks.
Of course, if someone wants to gift me that HoS $3500 set, in Blood Rosewood of course, or even a nice tournament, antique Jaques set, I would gladly accept them and even play with them in rated events, as I am a Chess player not collector per se.
Well said!!! I actually own a HoS Collector's Series Luxury 4.0" in Boxwood and Rosewood. A beautiful set that plays as good as it feels. I bought it on a deep discount back at the height of the "Great Recession", and 1.5 years later had a Custom Board made that complements the set. Again got a deep discount on it. I now have a true Work of Art that also is playable. That said, for my day to day play I love the HoS Plastic Marshall set It does not cost a fortune, and is a very GOOD LOOKING plastic set that has an excellent feel. I've had more than a few people comment on my set. Now if I wanted a great WOOD set that I planned to use day in and day out, I'd probably choose the HoS 3.875" Zagrab '59 set. Played with that type of set when I was stationed in Germany in the early 1970's.
Nobody makes anyone spend thousands on a chess set, nor even hundreds. I myself was planning to NEVER buy a wood set since I really did not and do not have the money, and was more than happy with my PLASTIC set, but then came the "Great Recession" and I was made "An offer I could not refuse". Do I regret my purchase? NO. Indeed the Collectors Series Luxury set in Boxwood and Rosewood set is no longer made, and with the custom board it really make it a one of a kind set.
If you drool over owning a beautiful wood set but don't have the money, but want a beautiful playable set that you know is going take a beating, get the Plastic HoS Marshall set. I've played with many plastic sets and NOTHING comes close to the feel of my Marshall set, and they also tend to be prone to be easily broken, my set still looks good 10+ years on, and it has taken a beating! While I've only seen the Zagreb '59 set, if it plays anything like the sets I played with in Europe that would be my choice for a WOOD set for day to day play.
My wife just bought me a 3.5" 1853-1855 Jaques with the early drop jaw knight. It is in almost perfect condition with just a ball finial off one of the black bishops and the black king has a little damage to the cross, both can (and will) be restored invisibly. all the felts are original. The set was little used and because it was stored in a mahogany box (no label) it is as close to being as it was when new that is possible after 165 years.
Interestingly the white knights are different, one being what is regarded as the 'stub' nose style and one longer. The wood of each knight shows the same grain pattern, meaning these knights were carved from the same piece of boxwood and are undoubtedly original to this set. Professor Sir Alan Fersht comments on this in his book.
This 'mixing' of knight styles in the same set makes nonsense of attempts to date sets by attaching the names of Gms and we should all give this failed attempt at muddying the waters a wide berth.
For those who would like to see it pictures are on our Fb page (bobbin boy)
Read Prof. Sir Alan Fersht's web site for a fairly clear explanation.
I would not comment on the above assertions about art, but perhaps in a few hundred years these copies will in and of themselves be regarded as such. Only time will tell.
I do note however when looking at my early Jaques that the shapes of some of the pieces do seem to have influences of earlier styles which is lacking in later Jaques sets and is not shown in the copies I have seen. I mean in particular that the oversized collars on the pawns along with the slightly ovoid ball finials and the shape of the bishop's mitre are reminiscent of the old English sets. For some reason this is not quite caught in modern copies.
The modern copies do not have the balanced and aesthetic proportion of the old sets. There is a charm, attraction and grace and beauty that cannot be found in modern sets.
I own this modern 4.4inch Jaques of London set if anyone is interested in seeing ‘homemade’ pictures for comparison? -
Really? That’s surprising to be honest.
Seeing as the most discussion in this thread has been centred around the design of the knight, here are a couple of photos I just took on my iPhone (sorry for the poor quality)-
They’re not perfect by any means.
Perfect? Maybe not, but classic and beautiful nonetheless.
I wonder why they undercut the bases on these sets? It is clear that Jaques did not.
The modern copies do not have the balanced and aesthetic proportion of the old sets. There is a charm, attraction and grace and beauty that cannot be found in modern sets. The modern replicas are not likely to become valuable with time as they have been overproduced and there are millions of such sets around. One of the most important aspects of valuable vintage sets apart from their old age and aesthetic beauty is their rarity. Vintage Jaques of London are valuable and increase in its value because they are very rare and hard to find whereas reproductions abound in millions and therefore can never become rare. Unless it is rare, it is hardly valuable. With millions of replicas around in the future there will always be enough competition to keep the prices low. In fact many replica luxury chess sets that would cost over a $1000 until 10 years ago can now be bought for as low as $200 to $300. This is one mistake that many chess collectors are unaware of and they keep buying replicas and reproductions in the hope that they may become valuable after many decades but this will not happen. In fact, prices keep coming down to a certain point and then stays the same.
no agree what you say 
this superbe by staunton uk company
Felts look original to me.
"Look Mom, it's mini-Astroturf!"