Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

I would be very interested in seeing if the base of the King in the Jaques set above is stamped "Jaques London". As far as I remember the cheaper sets did not have this stamp. But I didn't think they had the green label either. Strange.  

The whole thing is suspect.

1) First there the wrong date of 1847, when in fact Jaques didn't start producing sets until September 1849.

2) Then you have the wrong Style of Chessmen. The Card says "Certified as a Genuine Jaques Saunton Chess Set true to the original Jaques design of 1847. Beware of Imitations"

Here is the original 1849 set, photo credit Jon Crumiller from crumiller.com:

and here is set being sold as a "Genuine  Jaques set;

The two sets don't even remotely look alike. Unless they are claiming that it is a true Staunton set the basic design of which was registered in 1849, but this is no 1849 reproduction.

3) The medallion on the box is crooked.

4) A Printing error on the card?!? They don't take enough pride to know their own history and the date of the first Staunton set?!? 

5) But they want me to spend ~ $4,020 on one of their 1849 REPRODUCTIONS?!? "Beware of Imitations?!?" If Jauques takes no pride in the workmanship on their "cheap sets"  ~ $200 US sold with Certification  cards with the WRONG historical date of the first Staunton sets sold, more than a bit of stretching of the TRUTH by claiming that the $200 set is "...true to the original Jaques design of 1847."  This is just plain SHODDY workmanship. Jaques should hope that the set being offered is a cheap knock off, and sue the bastards, because IF this is in fact a GENUINE Jaques set, I wouldn't spend a single penny on anything with the Jaques name on it as it is all a bunch of crap that they take ZERO pride in. If I'm going to buy  a chess set I'm going to buy from a REPUTABLE company like House of Staunton or The Official Staunton Chess Company that takes PRIDE in what they are selling. 

I will agree with the "Stauntonmaster on on one point: The quality of Jaques Chess sets had grown so poor that it was expensive trash. It was that recognition that brought The House of Staunton into existence, and producers of HIGH QUALITY chess sets, throughout a wide variety of price ranges, including an extremely HIGH QUALITY PLASTIC set, since Dreuke's set was no longer being made. HoS has been leading the way in innovation of the "boutique" chess market: They were the first to offer 4 queens with every set they sold, now everybody does;  they created new sets combining features from older designs, and pairing them with exciting new knight designs; now other companies are following suit; their vision has helped bring back the chess set to an Object of Art, that can be used.  Jaques USE to be THE company if you wanted to buy a chess set you could show off with pride, now it is just highly over priced JUNK.

I had heard that Jaques was on the verge of closing down a few years ago, and then I heard they had started producing QUALITY chess sets once again, apparently that was not the case. If that Jaques chess set someone was asking ~ $200 USED is an example of what Jaques is offering, then if you are in the market for a chess set you can buy an infinitely better set at a far cheaper price from HoS, The Official Stauton Chess Company, and one or two other companies, than anything you can buy from Jaques. That example of a Jaques set is probably a dagger through the heart of Jaques. There are too many errors about that set which will reinforce the idea that all Jaques sells is expensive JUNK. Like it or not that set reflects poorly on the Jaques brand. If I were Jaques, I'd BUY that set back and replace it with a NEWER and better crafted set than to allow that God awful set to be floating around in public with my name and logo on it.   

they no say tis an 1849 set they no claim this! simple is showing jaques inceptions date as they do this with all jaques sets ! this one ebay jaques tis a basic modern jaques set with card showing jaque history only hence the date on cards though it is wrong date error 

agree with you 

It is a shame that Jaques did not grasp the metal and come up with at least, sets which were of the same quality as similar Indian and Chinese made offerings already on the market. Had they done so they would now dominate the market.

I suggested to Joe Jaques a few years ago (admittedly in a casual face to face conversation) that they should offer a decent quality set at about $200 and take the market. The logic being that, who wouldn't have a 'genuine' Jaques of similar quality to those offered elsewhere, sets which have to be offered as copies (because that is what they are). However Joe explained to me that they could not operate on high volume low margins and so the idea was dismissed.

The sets offered with different knights and so on are oftentimes quite attractive but still follow the style of the old Staunton pattern for the most part. If Jaques had launched a budget range of sets and also with some fanfare, a range of higher priced 'luxury' sets, the world of chess sets would be a different place today.

 I agree with Alan.  It is also of note and interesting that Frank Camaratta was and might very well currently be the wholesaler providing sets to Jaques.

 Making sets here in the US would be problematic, due, not just because of higher wages but also European Boxwood is not traded here (although it does grow here) as it is in England (and France) so it would have to be imported as would the ebony.

Fisheries and wildlife who oversee imports will not allow wood into the country with the bark still on due to insect infestations and the strong possibility of introducing a species which might run amuck in American forests with no natural predators to keep numbers under control.

Also the authorities are strong and long on paperwork, wanting environmental studies on the impact of cutting timber, fumigation certificates and so on.

Moves are afoot to stop the import of several of the African ebonies altogether.

Yes, that is true.  However I recall talking with Frank in 1999 or 2000 and him telling me he was acting as a wholesaler to Jaques through his India connections.

The question I have is whether we will be seeing more offerings from Official Staunton with member sales, on this forum.

" Chinese artisans are more meticulous about details and have higher concentration level and skill when it comes to producing detailed handicrafts."

I saw a lot of Chinese ivory chess sets when I was restoring antiques in Portobello Road market. The quality of carving got progressively worse as 20thc sets were being traded. I suspect that all the older carvers have died and the newer ones are not up to scratch.

That is not to say that craftsmen cannot be found in China and training up a reasonably talented man or even a group of men to carve chess knights should be only a matter of six months or so. The turning of the other pieces using profiles as the Indians do is less skilled.

Btw I only claimed that the certificate of authenticity for the £150 ebay Jaques set was suspect becuase it wasn’t signed, not because of the 1847 date shown on the card.

This date is in fact used on all of their certificates, as I have one that I know to be genuine:

Well Stauntonmaster, you must then agree that places like The Official Staunton Company are nothing more than drop shop kiddies, as someone said awhile back.

These places are nothing more than fronts for the manufacturers in India.  There is no way they make, or have made in any country other than India at this time, their own Chess sets.

Sure, they pick, choose and work with certain manufacturers in India, but they really do none of the true work themselves, unlike places like Noj where Gregor, his brother and their father are true artisans and craftsmen.

And jaques themselves have become drop shop kiddies like Official Staunton, in England.

Well, that is of course except that Carl did hack away at some knights of one of his sets with a finger nail file or something like that.  He showed pictures and all

The quality of "Charlie's Cheap and Crappy Chess Sets from Chatanooga" is also better then Chess Bazaar.  (Please realize that the above establishment is fictitious and made up to make a point humorously).

In fact the quality of EVERY Chess seller is more consistent and usually better than a lot of the stuff that comes from CB.  I say this objectively and without emotion or malice.

Yes, it is possible to get some decent product from them but every dollar spent there is a risk and gamble that you might run into problems.

You see, I am actually tight with my money.  I always work to get, and have not failed yet, a discount on everything that I buy in Chess equipment.

I do not want to spend even a nickel on a risk that I will receive problems and grief for the money spent.

You only have to look at all the cheaply veneered chess caskets and boxes that OS, HOS, CB, CM etc sell to see that none of these companies have an interest in true quality.

Not strictly true. I had a CUSTOM chess board made here in the United States  that uses Purple Heart, Curly Maple, Spalted Maple, Rosewood, and Bloodwood. I suspect -- don't know, but suspect -- the Rosewood, the Purple Heart, and Bloodwood  were imported probably sans bark, as "squares " or "blocks" of wood.  The wood is probably then kiln dried and prepared for use.

As to HoS they probably contract with a set of master carvers whose work they have approved, and they and only they produce the HoS sets so that they are of uniform quality and consistency. Jaques probably sends out a request and trainees and novices feel the orders the result is low quality inconsistent sets that have minimal details and simplistic cuts.

Environmental impact statements for import of timber are a simply weird idea.  Certification of origin is however something that is necessary for exotic timbers which as far as I know does not include box and fumigation is a perfectly normal part of shipping timber internationally, not expensive and documented as a matter of course.  Seasoning timber with the bark on is not the normal approach, the bark is usually stripped.  International trade in timber is not typically logs, but flitches or smaller pieces, timber already cut and at least partially dried.  Bark is not the issue.  There are dealers in the US who sell air dried box (a minute of googling found them).  As for restriction, yes, an increasing number of Ebony species are restricted due to increasing illegal trade and increasing scarcity.  CITES has banned trade in rosewood recently, in part due to massive increases in consumption and illegal trade, in the same way and for similar reasons as ivory trade has been banned.   

Official Staunton have English chess co too and have actual their manufacture building in India unlike house Staunton and chess store with others

 I normally buy my exotics from Cormark. They had to have an expensive environmental impact study done for some pink ivory wood they imported. Even at $2.50 per pen blank they say their is no profit in it for them.

I did google boxwood lumber as Greg sugested and admittedly the site I found had a wonderful piece of boxwood on display, along with an antique wood plane. however on looking further at this piece of $100 boxwood it is unusable as you will see if this link works.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Boxwood-Genuine-Buxus-43-x-3-to-4-1-2-x-1-1-2-9-lbs/172988935199?hash=item2846f1ac1f:g:BQ4AAOSweW5U4K-Qc:USPSPriority!28806!US!-1

So buying boxwood over the internet is not without it's problems. I bought mine from Octopus woods in Hungary and the first batch ($500 for 30lbs) was confiscated by the F&Wl.

So it is not all plain sailing by any means. 

I think the main point I was trying to make is that drop-shopping Indian made sets, even with it's inherent problems is much easier than setting up to make then yourself, even for those with the necessary woodturning skills and equipment, storage workshop etc.

So we are saddled with the drop shop boys who fluf their design skills and claim much credit for nothing much more than middle class aspirations the foreseeable future I think.