Rybka is no longer strongest chess engine

Even if their ratings were exactly the same, they still don't draw all that much, they just win equal amounts of games.

In general I think computer-computer games have fewer draws than GM-GM games (see e.g. the world championship tables at http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/icga/game.php?id=1 )

Huh? Fabrication? Anyone can check the results for themselves. If you dont have fritz or chessbase... Just download arena get the Robbolito engine and either purchase Rybka or get it from ahem...other sources.

Run your own engine tests and verify..

Btw - the 20-32 elo is very conservative and applies to quite long time controls..and possibly when openings favouring rybka are played. A test suite with a wide variety of openings gives a more accurate barometer of engine strength.

1 yr ago anyone can easily verify that Rybka was #1 by carrying out these tests -

Now...Rybka cannot win at all  in the shorter time controls

This is a fact. Robbolito >= Rybka + 50 elo (short tcs)

Someone disputed for long time controls 30 minutes+ per side but enough tests have not being done at such long tcs.

On 4 cpu - Igorrit  v7 is +63elo using a custom mfl suite.. I will repeat this test at 1+6 seconds using the Noomen suite which heavily favours Rybka (available at the Rybka site )

Hi,

I just downloaded Robbolito and scanned through the clone discussion. Apart from all technical details, doesn't the name itself have the sarcastic meaning of something like "a little robbed", so everything is clear?

My personal tradeoff is to privately use Robbo now for analysis (not on PlayChess!) and buy Rybka 4 when it is released and has at least the same strength as Robbo. I believe Rybkas author can live with this approach.

Regards,

Josef

The only <<claims>> of the Rybka sympathy group is that some mythical beta-version was ripped off from a computer not even attached to the Internet. No, the Ippolit team rewrote the whole thing from scratch and gained 50 elo in the process. That was in May, but the Rybka team shut down the Internet disucssion of them until October.

You can simply look at the internal structure to see the difference. Rybka uses 2=white pawn, 3=black pawn, 4=white knight, 5=black knight, 6=white bishop, etce. This is been known since the Strelka days. Now you look at Ippolit and see 1=white pawn, 2=white knight, 3=white king, 4 and 5=white bishops, 6=white rook, 7=white queen, 9=black pawn, and the difference can only be obvoius. The hash entries in Rybka are not the same. The evaluation is difference. The search is differenct. The only responses is the saying that the mythical version was stolen.

I don't think "Vas" is a fairly decent guy full stop. He in the most part simply remade the Fruit code with his own numbers and pruning into Rybka in the beginning. Of the 8 Freestyle events with ChessBase, he was involved in 3 scandals, twice he tried to get a draw after a mouseslip, once he didn't have a legit account, and in the final one he was account sharing with his wife after they banned that idea. they just both played both accounts, and took the one that did better.

I think the reason Ippolit takes so long to add SMP is that the original Ippolit team is not interested in it, and the new breed is still learning. They are probably hobby guys also, not full time like the Rybka team with their supercomputers and clusters. You might think also that they have added another 50 elo in a secret Ippolit version, waiting for Rybka 4 to come out so that "Vas" can't steal their ideas.

The official author is not the Firebird's Norman Schmidt, but the Ippolit wiki has them. They need to preserve anonymity for fear of having an <<accident>> if you know what I mean.

RobboLito is just a name derivative of "Ippolit" that was made by Roberto Pescatore (meaning Bobby Fisher). It doesn't mean little robber.

Long time controls still make RobboLito the top. See the Immortal Forum poster who got 46 more elo than Rybka in 400 games.

http://immortal223.borda.ru/?1-19-0-00000041-000-0-0#006

The only bad spot for the Ippolit team is SMP where Rybka can still win at long time controls and if ponder is on.

It is nice that this site doesn't censor the information about Rybka and her "clones" as the <<mainline>> references are doing so like TalkChess and of course HIARCS and Rybka and PlayChess.

In Italian, the word for theif is "ladro" like "La gazza ladra", the thieving magpie by Rossini. The other words are brigante (brigand), or rapinatore (rapiner or mugger), or bandito (bandit), or malandrino (bad rogue). So Robbolito doesn't mean little robber in Italian. It means either little robot, or from Robert, as Roberto Pescatore. Does the name Robert mean robber in English?

, you are just rambling here without any sense of what assembly code means. If that were the case, all softwares, algorithms could have been reverse engineered. Go, take a software course in assembly level programming and the first thing that you'll be taught is that you cannot get the originial source code from exe code. Only java code could be reverse engineered and never the exe file any day. May be you should talk to system software programmers here before invalidating my comments as nonsense.

What Rybka engineers? Where's this coming from?

Vaslick Rajlich who happens to be a Rybka software engineer(am i right??) has made no claims of same datastructure or logic etc being used on comparing his code with the ippolito code. His only claims are, "Ippolito is a clone, they reverse engineered the code, they spoke with rybka programmers before designing the ippolito etc", none are made at the technical level.

What do you mean by overtaking? It's not a crime to write a stronger engine than your professional competitors'.

 Exactly, That's my point.

This is all silly. All the internals of Rybka and IPpolit find no sameness. Rybka numbers pieces 2=white pawn, 3=black pawn, 4=white knight, and more, while Ippolit uses 1=white pawn, 2=white knight, 3=white king, 4,5=white bishop and more. The easiness of this change thruout the entire enginecode without source code can be dubious. There are much more than slight modifications. The tables have different size throughtout, Rybka has 8 bytes for hash entries, but 16 for "clones', and 136 for Rybka in pawns but 32 for Ippolit, and more with other tables. Rybka has extra functions for SEE and search that are ignored by Ippolit, while Ippolit adds knowledge for endgames.The evaluation is different and the search is different. If you don't see this, then list a sameness.

Nobody needs the Nalimov because IvanHoe now has RobboBases.

If I write about Marxism, and use Karl Marx's ideas to improve them, and rework all the paragraphs so that none sound the same, is it a translation or a novel work?

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I fail to see how any of this is really relevant to a player with a rating of 1900 or lower. Wouldn't any decent engine constitute a sufficient challenge?

   It's just the same BS piled higher and deeper. (Ph.D.)

Surely you don't know Eastern Europe at all well if you chance that "accidents" don't happen. Chess is also a big thing in it. I've have seen the rating lists for computer chess "suddenly" drop all mention of Ippolit and RobboLito without a mention, as that's the only way that Rybka can pretend to be #1 still. Bribes or threats, all the same.

He has a whole team behind him to censor Ippolit as he did for 5 months, and to "correct" and "suppress" any inconvenient Internet information about Fruit or Ippolit. But now the truth is coming out, as his wide net is starting to gain holes in it. They've already started to compile rybka-is-fruit.Wikispaces.com and the endgame will be here soon. You can look for the those desperate in his support to bully and thug everyone they can, but the reckoning day can't be avoided now.

That's why I like posting here because the freedom with information still is available while untrue in other places. The moneyed special interests haven't been able to shutdown us yet.

If what you say is true, then Vas is laughing all the way to the bank. With bribery or bullying, he did what he could to sell rybka for another 5 months.

[quote]but such accusations would not only be more than "un-decent" behaviour, but they would also be a career ending idiocy.I just don't think he is the type.[/quote]I think this is wrongly incorrect. How would anybodies find out that Ippolit was not a clone if he could hushup it? No one checked his accusation, and they just censored the Internet 5 months for Ippolit. Now came October and the cat has jumped the bag, and he's sweating it with zero "0" no proof. If you assume he made a calculated gamble bet to decry it a clone, and ensure Rybka stays "#1" for the ignorant, now the piper is paying. More people looking at the Ippolit and Rybka comparison have found the clone idea bogus, with the original lookers were closer to vested interests.

I agree he is laughing those who bought him to the bank. His team can follow him as per lemmings, so then he has absolute control. The team spreads so even wider with acolytes in ratings leagues, who instantly censor Ippolit from them so that Rybka looks like #1 still. For then the Wikipedia copies that Rybka is "#1" in all ratings and Chess Base sells it with the same. But this forum and the Russian ones are exposing him all 100% in now.

Someone on his forum had all kinds of evidence that Rybka and Ippolit had many differences but they shutup him real quick, and permissived those who call it a clone to continue.

Here is the example from Talk Chess dot com

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_view=threads&p=327230&t=32290

IvanHoe solves it one minute and Rybka 3 takes 30 minutes. Does your clone do that?

 Pile it as high as you like. It's still BS.

Looks like Vas is caught in his own web of lies. :). Either he is hiding the little "fruity" dessert that he had while programming Rybka or as someone has it in these posts, he is trying to make a few dollars more by stalling.

To be included in the chess engine rating lists the authors should own up their work. Else it suggests reverse engineering. Although all the statements by @hsbgowd and the other dude about the reverse engineering are perfect!

I wont waste my time siding with anyone. If these guys are thieves, then Vas is too. Everyone is in some way or the other. So no point here, nor in being a nihilist!

Anyway, where can we download the Ippolito? One more thing: Are the engines Ivanhoe and Firebird really Elo 3400+? It could be jolly good feeling to watch the commercial engines go down the drains...he he