Ultimate Chess Sets in Metal

Hey All, 

We are looking to get the Ultimate Chess Set done in metal.  We figure we will get the set done in a limited production run of 200 pieces.  180 plated in Silver and Black and 20 sets in Gold and Black.  The set would come in a fitted cardboard presentation box with foam and flocking.

The question I have is we have a conundrum of sorts.  We can make them where they use the same design as the plastic set essentially where the plastic is now steel and we lose the weights.  This style would weigh in at 4.5 lbs.  Or we can go with a completely solid set in the Ultimate design with no cavities in the middle that will weigh in at over 6 lbs.

My question is where do you think the line is for a set weight where people will carry the set around?  I am thinking a 6.6lb. set would destroy a lot of the bags people would want to carry the set in.  This would relegate the set to house use only in my mind...or would it?

Would love to get your opinions.

thanks

Shelby Lohrman

American Chess Equipment

Wood Expressions

If you make them heavy enough chess will become a real sport and you can claim that using your set will help people lose weight, lots of money in that  

I'm wondering if you think that they'll be a little top-heavy if they're solid. The current Ultimate Set is balanced so well because the weight is at the bottom of the piece. My $.02. 

I’d like to suggest a third option. So the hollo pieces don’t end up top heavy and so you could reach the middle ground upon the subject of overall weight, perhaps hollow pieces with solid bases?

If the bases were threaded to the main body of the pieces then those that want a heavy home only set could fill their pieces with sand or some other material.

Just a suggestion. Thanks.

what is the price category we are talking about here?

 

and totally unrelated, any chance of seeing those roll up chess boards with light gray or buff color instead of bright white squares?

 

If the metal has brushed/non-shiny look I would for sure buy a solid metal set at that price. 

 

Light gray + Darker gray squares chess board would be amazing. There were lots of fantastic options in the original thread that discussed it. Somewhat related, I really like the wood grained (Walnut+Maple) chess board you have, and own two of them, too bad it has a misprint. That two pixels wide bright line between two of the squares keeps it from being perfect. If you ever get a second printing done I would upgrade to the new version in a heartbeat. 

 

 

 

 

 

An average double weighted set is around 40 oz. or so 4.5 pounds would be plenty heavy enough shelby. an update on the new color plastic sets would be helpful too/ Im hoping 2 order 2 of the new colored sets at the first of the year. thanks

My personal preference is for the heavier set. I think solid pieces would be the way to go. Concerned that you mention they are played though. How does the plating wear over time, particularly with heavy blitz use?

I have a solid metal set, I’ll post photos and weigh it when I am next at home. Will have to look up how much I bought it for , but I am confident it was lower than your price point.

Have you considered a choice of metals? Aluminum alloys would lighten it up considerably. While this adds complexity, and can definitely impact expense, there are some very interesting possibilities here. Titanium, tungsten, molybdenum, brass (there are a lot of very interesting brasses) would all make for some very interesting choices. Take a look at the high end spinning top world....

I'm skeptical that a completely solid set at 6+lbs would be appealing to the majority of potential customers.  A (semi-) hollow set with sufficient weight at bottom to keep it stable seems to be a set that most customers could readily appreciate.

As a thought to satisfy those who might want to customize (i.e., increase) the weight of the pieces, perhaps the hollow pieces could be manufactured with a small 1/16 - 1/8 inch hole in the center of the bottom which would allow fine sand, metallic powder or some other material to be introduced into the hollow cavity to increase the weight.  It would then be up to the customer in that case to figure out how to plug up the hole to prevent the material from escaping, for instance by using glue, a peg or some other ingenious means which they might devise.  Of course the issue of the introduced material moving around inside the cavity should be contemplated by the customer, although a very fine powder material would not make make as much, if any, noise as would be the case with a large solid, moving weight rattling around inside the cavity (like in the case of some plastic sets we know of).  Of course, the customer should understand that making such a modification would probably void any warranty.

I personally strongly prefer them to be solid and heavy. Hollow pieces just feels a bit cheap to me regardless of material. The weight of the Ultimate pieces had always been a major defining characteristic of the design, so I'd like that to be emphasized rather than skimping out with hollow centers.

 

The price point seems more than fair at $230. I'd have zero objections to buying one.

This perspective is apparently based on your experience with the Ultimate set which are plastic pieces....

The weight of a hollowed metal set will obviously be completely different from the weight of a hollowed plastic set.....i.e., a hollowed metal set can, and likely will, be much heavier than any weighted plastic set.

So lets be careful to not conflate the weight and experience of playing with plastic sets with that of the proposed metal set in these discussions, whether hollowed or not.  Doing so would simply confuse matters....it's comparing apples to oranges.

I have the current plastic version of the Ultimate pieces and the ebony/boxwood version from ChessHouse. 6.6 lb would mean the solid metal ver is roughly 50% heavier than the wooden version, which I think would be great. Solid metal also means no loose weight problems.

I don't like the way hollow pieces echo in particular when placing them, whether it be plastic or metal. In fact, metal makes this worse. I bought a hollow metal set before. It's about 4lb. They are reasonably heavy, but it just doesn't feel satisfying to play with them when that echo reminds me constantly that something is missing.

The best outcome would be Shelby being able to offer both versions if possible.

Loose weights in metal pieces??  Echos??

Sorry if I wasn't clear. A common complaint I've heard about chess pieces is that the weights shakes loose and the rattling bothers people. Yea, sure, hollow metal pieces with no weights won't have loose weight issues, but when you capture pieces and they click against each other, hollow pieces makes a very distinctive echo. That's what I was referring to.

Capturing pieces clicking against each other???   It seems you play chess differently than the vast majority of players.  With the hearing of a dog as well...

I mean, the majority of people I've observed likes to capture by pushing the opponent's piece off the square with their own piece first before lifting the captured piece off the board. Or in case of the kids, slam their own piece down on top of the opponent's piece.

There are like maybe 2 players total in the chess club that I go that distinctively captures the "GM way", silently, where they lift the opponent's piece away before sliding their own piece there.

@ShelbyLohrman -

I propose that you conduct a rather simple experiment to come to a conclusion about an appropriate weight for the metal set.  The experiment would be to add weight to a similarly designed and sized piece to see what feels right to you. Perhaps get a couple of experienced players whose judgement you value to participate in the experiment with you to get a consensus of opinion (but not too many, else a conclusion becomes increasingly difficult to agree on!).

Specifically, for the experiment you could drill a hole in the top of a similarly sized hollow plastic piece and introduce varying amounts of (for example) steel powder (see link below) into the cavity of the piece while noting its feel and weight.  In this case, a rook of the current Ultimate set might be the easiest to work with, since it is circularly symmetric and has an existing cavity along its vertical axis.  (The vertical cavity of the rook could also be increased by careful reaming with a drill if needed to allow more weight to be added for the experiment). This shouldn't be too difficult to do in order to get a sense of, and feel for an appropriate weight.  (It goes without saying to be sure to carefully record the weights during the experiment using a gram scale).  I'm guessing that a metal set weight of no more than 50% greater than your current Ultimate (plastic) set (i.e., about 3.9+1.95=5.85lb total weight) would be about right.  But doing the experiment would help to confirm this.  So for example, if you were to determine that a 50% increase in weight of the experimental piece feels right, you would then proportionately increase the weights of all the pieces by the same percentage, for the metal set, which in this example should come out to approximately 5.85 lb total. 

This (or some conceptually similar process) is how the engineer in me would go about it - scientifically!

P.S.  Be sure to record the final weight of the experimental piece after it has been modified, as a single unit together with its added weight, considering that any drilling and/or reaming of the original piece removes material from and decreases the original weight of the piece itself.

Steel powder...

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Powder-Pound-Priority/dp/B0733KZZ5X/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=steel+powder&qid=1574526129&sr=8-4

the gram scale that I have....works great....be sure to get the calibration weight...

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-Stainless-Calibration/dp/B00XWEAGRS/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?keywords=American+Weigh+Scales+Calibration+Weight+for+AWS+Digital+Scale%2C+Carbon+Steel%2C+Chrome+Finish%2C+100g+%28100WGT%29&qid=1574531667&s=home-garden&sr=8-1-fkmr1

 

Wild!

Metal chess pieces are more of a novelty set. Nothing for serious play. Me personally have no desire to purchase metal chess sets. Which ever way you go doesn't bother me since I will not be purchasing one of these sets. 

I think that doing the Ultimate Chess Pieces in aluminum and screw in weights along with lock tight would be a better way to go in my opinion. You have so many anodizing color options with aluminum that you can't do with metal. Be a cheaper option as well. I would buy an aluminum weighted set over a plated metal set. Shelby you might give aluminum a try for the Ultimate Chess Pieces.   

I think that he is going to make it the same size as the current Ultimate Chess Pieces set. I think that anodized aluminum with screwed in weights. That are tournament sized would be the way to go in my opinion.