2.g3 English avoiding hedgehog?

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AtahanT

How does 1. c4 2. g3 avoid or make hedgehog undesirable? I don't quite get it. Can't black play b6 and Nc6 and then Bg7?

Tenna

In general, in a hedgehog, the knight is better off on d7 than c6. But it's perfectly playable, just a bit awkward.

DrizztD

I suppose that since white fianchettos their bishop on g2 right away, black may not want to fianchetto their bishop on a contested diagonal.

AtahanT
Estragon wrote:

Is the Hedgehog so fearsome that White must avoid it? 

The problem with 1 c4 Nf6 2 g3 is that it doesn't challenge Black at all, poses no threat or hint of a problem for him at all - except for the possibility of play on the long diagonal, which Black can immediately counter with 2 ...c6 if he chooses.

 

You can't solve the problem of not being able to achieve a working advantage against the Hedgehog by adopting a different line which promises Black even easier equality!


I don't think Mihail Murin, author of Grandmaster Repetoire - English Opening, has a problem getting an advantage over the hedgehog. He writes that his move order 1. c4 2. g3 avoids the hedgehog amongst other effects but doesn't explain why. (he also says the move order 2.Nc3 ofcourse has other desirable effects also but that 2.g3 makes it easier for white to gain an edge in his oppinion) I just want to know why because I'm building my repetoire around 2.g3 and if someone tries to play the hedgehog I want to know why it is bad.

AtahanT
Tenna wrote:

In general, in a hedgehog, the knight is better off on d7 than c6. But it's perfectly playable, just a bit awkward.


Ah ofcourse. That seems to be the reason I guess.

PMorphyLives
AtahanT wrote:
Estragon wrote:

Is the Hedgehog so fearsome that White must avoid it? 

The problem with 1 c4 Nf6 2 g3 is that it doesn't challenge Black at all, poses no threat or hint of a problem for him at all - except for the possibility of play on the long diagonal, which Black can immediately counter with 2 ...c6 if he chooses.

 

You can't solve the problem of not being able to achieve a working advantage against the Hedgehog by adopting a different line which promises Black even easier equality!


I don't think Mihail Murin, author of Grandmaster Repetoire - English Opening, has a problem getting an advantage over the hedgehog. He writes that his move order 1. c4 2. g3 avoids the hedgehog amongst other effects but doesn't explain why. (he also says the move order 2.Nc3 ofcourse has other desirable effects also but that 2.g3 makes it easier for white to gain an edge in his oppinion) I just want to know why because I'm building my repetoire around 2.g3 and if someone tries to play the hedgehog I want to know why it is bad.


Sorry to bump an old thread, but I think the answer should be recorded here. GM Marin does describe why the 2.g3 English move order avoids the Hedgehog. His volume 3 on the symmetrical English covers what happens when Black attempts in the Hedgehog in chapter 13. Check the chapter for the GMs analysis. For those who don't have the book, you can at least check out this Yusupov game: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1384756