3. Bc4 or Bb5 ?

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rvmurali24

Which move is stronger 3. Bc4 or Bb5? Any body share their view!!

andy-inactive
And which opening are we talking about? I am assuming you are asking whether the Italian Game or Ruy Lopez are stronger.. and in my opinion it is certainly the Ruy Lopez. But first, let's make sure you are really talking about 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 and then 3.Bc4 or Bb5 Smile
rvmurali24

You are right andy,

I am talking about ruy lopez. But Once i make Bb5 then after ...a6&..b5 Retreat of bishop to c2 leads to little defencive!!.

Since i want to play active shall i choose Bc4.?

batgirl

Does ths look defensive?

 

rvmurali24

5 ...Bc5  -- Not a right move for black, since 5)...Be7 is widely suggested & played, also It could have saved black from the Dark coloured bishop threat at the end.

But still i feel Bc4 could be the strongest compared with Bb5.

wstanevans
There are quiet positions after 3.Bc4 and there are rowdy positions after 3.Bb5.  You can not completely dictate how your game is going to go.  I think there also is a lot to learn after either move.  Basically pick whichever you prefer to learn first.  And sometimes the lines transpose.
travis1010
I love to play 3.Bc4!  There are some very exciting lines with this opening.  Look up the Fried Liver attack or the the Moeller Attack line of the Giuoco Piano.
SohamS7573421

Bb5 is better I think

Die_Schanze
There are some nice active systems with pawn sacrifices after 3. Bc4:
Rat1960

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bg5 is more popular than 3. Bc4
On the handful of times Robert James Fischer had to make up his mind on the move the last time he played 3. Bc4 was in an Open in 1963.
The only time I play 3. Bc4 is when training the kids at the club and it comes with the comment "and you do not move a knight in reply"
It is just for me, Bc4 is not in my opening repertoire, it is not a question of stronger move.

Rat1960

 

SilentKnighte5
pfren wrote:
Rat1960 έγραψε:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bg5 is more popular than 3. Bc4

Notice that it is an illegal move as well.

Making it that much stronger.

Rat1960
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
pfren wrote:
Rat1960 έγραψε:

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bg5 is more popular than 3. Bc4

Notice that it is an illegal move as well.

Making it that much stronger.

Exactly, it is one those GM moves.

saiyan_guerrero

I would say that Bb5 (the spanish game) is defintely superior to the italian (Bc4), however, I prefer the italian. I prefer it because it tends to lead to open lines and sharper games. Since I still have a long way to go as far as strategy I feel like it suits me better to play a game such as the italian as it helps me better my tactics.

fieldsofforce

The  books never talk about the  2 different types of restraint that Bc4 and Bb5 impose on Black's position.  It is only one perspective on the  2 different moves but nonetheless a fundamental question in a game that after all is about Siege Warfare in the form of a  game.  It is a game where  the 3 basic strategies are, restrain, blockade and execute the enemy.

The move 3.Bc4 primarily restrains Black from playing 3...d5.  It is a move that is critical to Black's  fighting for  its fair share of control of the center squares (d4,d5,e4,e5).  However, it  only restrains with the threat of the loss of a pawn.  3...d5 4.Bxd5

The move 3.Bb5 primarily restrains Black from playing 3...d5 for a more fundamental reason.  A threat that goes to the heart of chess strategy.  With 3.Bb5 White  is restraining  the Black's d pawn with the  threat of damaging Black's  pawn structure (if 3...d5 4.Bxc6 bxc6) by  giving Black an exploitable doubled pawn complex (Black pawns at c7, c6, d5).  Moreover, in order to nullify  White's threat, Black must make moves that further weaken his queenside pawn structure. 

Because of these reasons and many others not mentioned in this post 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 is the stronger move.

mrbob8717

I prefer Bb5, in the italian game, white can't bring out his knight behind the bishop because if 3... Kf6 4. Kc3 Kxe4 5. Kxe4 d5. The pawn attacks the bishop and knight while being defended by the queen. I really like playing this fork against people who make the mistake of bringing out the knight. The then recommended best move is 6. Bd3 dxe4 7. Bxe4 and from this position, black can almost always turn this into a win or draw.

kindaspongey

Has rvmurali24 been here since 2007? Anyway:

"Of all chess openings, the Ruy Lopez is one of the oldest, best and most analyzed." - FM Carsten Hansen (2010)

"Alekhine advised beginners not to play the Spanish game. We also recommend you get some experience first by playing relatively simple openings - the Scotch and Italian games - and only then move on to the Spanish one." - Journey to the Chess Kingdom by Yuri Averbakh and Mikhail Beilin

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627022042/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen153.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627023224/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen94.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Images/Pdfs/9033.pdf

MickinMD

Personally, like many I love Bc4 and I do so because, being less skilled at strategy than I'd like, it helps me plan the middlegame better.  Whether it's the Vienna Game, Bishop's Opening, or Giuoco Piano I've been relatively successful with it, so: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Of course, the fact that GM's much more often play the Ruy Lopez than the Giuoco, apparently 3 Bb5 is the theoretically better move.  On the other hand, maybe they play it because there's less chance of losing.  According to chess.com's Opening Explorer, White's results are:

3 Bc4: 38% wins, 31% draws, and 31% losses.

3 Bb5: 37% wins, 38% draws, and 25% losses.

RoadTo2700

i like italian game because fried liver and evans gambit suit my playstyle 

SAGM001

Both good