5.f3!? in the open sicilian?

I have faced this line,1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3, instead of the standard 5.Nc3 a few times now and it actually looks like a pretty good choice for white if he wants to avoid open sicilian theory but still play an open game against the sicilian.

Sure it commits white to moving his f-pawn early in the game, but it also leaves him the option of playing 6.c4 against any black response, setting up a maroczy bind. Weather this maroczy is good or not without black commiting to a accelerated dragon, I am not sure, but it is interesting. White can also possibly play Nc3 at a later stage and maybe even transpose to some type of yugoslav or english attack system.

So is there a name for this system? What do you sicilian players usually counter it with? I usually play Nc6, and eventually e5, but perhaps this isn't the best choice. Is there a downside to not playing Nc3 right away? It will interesting to read what everyone thinks about this.

2. ...d6 a good move? I have no idea, I never play the sicilian with black.

I don't know if there is "theory" on it.  But, it would seem to me that black could simply play d5 and if white pushes then you have entered a quasi-advance french(no e6 yet-meaning they can possibly get the light square bishop out before e6.  Or even trade the light square bishop off via b6 and b-a6)

I would see the play going forward something like d5 2.e5, nd7 3.  f4....

Of course if black is playing a sicilian they don't necessarily like playing french positions do they? 

There is a Franco-Sicilian defense for those who can't decide. d5 could transpose into that opening.

it's the prins variation. i have no idea how to play it though.

once again done in my head..so correct me if I am wrong.  

But, It seems you mean 6. b-d7 and not n-d7.  but after b-b5+ b-d7 7.e5,q-a5+8. n-c3, bxb5 9.nxb5, d4!?  because after qxd4 then n-c6 followed by nxe5 and if the knight captured the d pawn then the e pawn is captured by the queen. 

Any mistakes in my analysis?  Bueller, bueller anyone? 

Actually, although this is not considered to be the best plan for white, it is nevertheless not that bad and can be quite tricky; so much so, in fact, that a master friend of mine affirms that he plays ...Nf6 before cxd4 in order to avoid this variation. There is theory on this, but nobody I've talked to can quite remember it, and I don't feel like looking it up at the moment.

 by the way e5 is a good move.  But, whites position isn't as bad as you seem to think.  a3 and c3 are the classical positions of the knights in the main line of the schevenigen(sp?).  The only difference is white has already played f3(I don't know if that would be good or bad in this case. Especially since I don't know the theory that well on that opening-especially since I may have even mixed up the name of the variation)

 Well, black always has a good chance at a full point if they understand the opening and the pawn structures which they are playing.  And like I said I would be interested to know if f3 as opposed to the knight on c3 makes it better or worst for white.  I will have to look through some of my other "materials" when I get home to see what I can find.

By the way what did you think of my analysis of d5?

The Prins variation 5.f3 is totally playable (especially at amateur level!), but it's not very ambitious and perhaps not theoretically favorable. Here's what Fischer once said about this line:

[5.f3 is] a passive, non-developing move which leads to nothing. White wants to gain control of d5, establishing a Maroczy bind with c4, Nc3, etc. But after going to all that trouble he can't prevent ...d5 after all. Correct is that tired old move -- 5.Nc3.

About erikido23's question on the ...d5 move, here's my response.  In most lines of the Sicilian, if black can get in ...d5 at some point,  he would be in good shape.  That is also the case here, but not on move five, because it runs into a little bit of trouble after 6.e5 Nfd7 7.e6! (...fxe6 8.Nxe6 Qb6 9.Qxd5 is just disgusting) So 7...Ne5 should be played (any other knight move loses material after 9.Bb5+ since the knight does not cover the important c6 sqaure), and after 8.exf7 Kxf7, white has a solid edge.

So 5...e5 is probably best here since black can play ...d5 without a problem shortly after this move.  Just a sample line: 6. Bb5+ (the Venice Attack) Bd7 7. Bxd7 Qxd7 8. Nf5 d5! and black should be ok.

 Well I like the idea of playing e5 to kick the knight to b3 but what if white throws in Bb5+ first, looking to exchange off the light squared bishops and increase control of the weak d5 square? I play the najdorf in the open sicilian and I know one of the reasons for 5.a6 is to prepare e5 without allowing that bishop check, so how would the situation be better for black here? Maybe this is insignificant but I feel since in the najdorf d5 is very important, it would be in this structure too. I think I would play Nc6 and then e5 for this reason, but maybe it isn't such a big deal...

 Ah, very good.  I had meant to calculate out the e6 variation.  But, first I went through the b-b5+ variation and was happy to seemingly calculate it out. 

Then I proceeded to forget that you could play e5 first as well.  (You should always calculate the simple stuff to see if it gets you crushed before you calculate a deep variation.  But, I just like the complex so much more)

But, your analysis seems pretty good on e6.  Only thing I would say is it is possible to take with the knight on f7 and black would have solid center pawns.  Does white have an edge?  I would argue no.  I would say it is unbalanced position with "winning chances for both sides" or in other words an interesting game ahead.  

Btw, this has been an educational thread for me.  opening theory probably is my weakest point

It's better to recapture the pawn with the king after 8.exf7 for three reasons: 1) to remove the king from the dangerous a4-e8 diagonal 2) to over-protect the e6 square so it can't be occupied by the white knight and 3) as I mentioned earlier, to keep the knight on e5 to guard important territories.  If 8...Nxf7?, then 9.Bb5+! poses many problems.  For instance, 9...Nd7? loses very quickly since it denies the c8 bishop's access to the e6 square and allows white to keep the pin. Now the quiet 10.Nc3! gives white a large advantage, after 10...Qb6 11.Nxd5 Qd6 12.Qe2 Qxd5 13.Ne6! (threatning to fork king and queen) Qh5 14.Nc7+ Kd 15.Nxa8, white is simply winning. The lesser evil is 9...Bd7, but it runs into something like 10.Ne6! (taking advantage of the pin) Qb6 11.Qxd5 Bxb5 12.Qxb5 Qxb5 13.Nc7+ Kd7 14.Nxb5, and black has to face a very unpleasant pawn-minus ending.

So......with all that said, 8...Kxf7 is to be preferred. This move maintains material balance and gets the king to a safer place. Note that I never said white has a big advantage after this move, but a solid (and small) one, and the reason is obvious. The other point you mentioned about black having solid center pawns is not quite true, even if black plays 8...Kxf7.  Indeed he does have two center pawns, but they just aren't solid!  White will inevitably play f4 at some point, kicking the black knight while hitting the e5 square, after which black's e-pawn will remain backward (and problematic) for a very long time.

 c5 says its sicillian, if you check it out perhaps e5 can create an attack and i believe most analysis will say nc3 is best move,have good day.

"A passive, non-developing move which leads to nothing. White wants to gain control of d5, establishing a Maroczy bind with c4, Nc3, etc. But after going to all that trouble he can't prevent ...d5 after all. Correct is that tired old move -- 5.Nc3. "
 ---Bobby Fischer on 5. f3

5 ...e5 is recommend treatment against this and leads to a good game for black.

f3 is played on the english attack of the najdorf. Possible to transpose. It isn't bad.

But Nc3 is played to protect the pawn and d5 so d5 refutes it I think

I was looking for this line in the Sicilian, and seems there is already a post on this topic, 6 years old so a bit dusty

The best answer to 5. f3 seems to be e5. But...

I played 5. .. a6 before playing 6. ... e5 in order to avoid 6. Nb5 after the proposed 5. e5.

So, we have that, after 6.e5, white has to play the knight to e.g. b3, with gives him less influence on the center than  5.f3 e5   6. Nb5 a6   7. Nc3

I don't know if this is clear enough. But in short, my question is: "is playing 5.  ... a6 to prevent the knight-move after  e5 a good move or not?" Is it too slow? Are there any other objections?

This has been played by some strong players in blitz and rapid games. The problem is that after 5...e5 6 Nb3 d5 Black has easily equalized without having to face the Maroczy bind. Of course it does seem to avoid the Najdorf and that could be good if you want to avoid a lot of theory.

That 5.f3 idea only works against 2...d6, not 2...e6 or 2...Nc6.

Black has 4 options:

The endgame - 5...e5 6.Nb3 d5 7.Bg5 but it is a miserable ending for Black. With best play, it is a draw, but virtually zero winning chances for Black.

The more dynamic 5...e5 6.Nb3 Be6, but it is riskier for Black.

The move 5...Nc6 which leads to either the independent line 6...Qb6, or a direct transposition to the Accelerated Dragon Maroczy Bind

The move 5...e6 leads to a Hedgehog position for Black.