9. O-O-O or 9. Bc4 in Yugoslav attack in the dragon Sicilian?
9.O-O-O is popular, but Bc4 is and will probably always be the big main line
No, that’s not what I said. I meant that while O-O-O has become popular Bc4 is still the most popular. O-O-O has become more (but not most) most popular due to people who don’t believe in white’s mating chances after Bc4. Bc4 is the most popular because of well, the mating chances.
9.O-O-O is popular, but Bc4 is and will probably always be the big main line
I don't know about that! There are a few openings out there where the "main line" is taking a back seat and is becoming the "old main line" and there is a change of the guard for "main line".
Caro-Kann:
Old Main Line - 3.Nc3
New Main Line - 3.e5
Najdorf:
Old Main Line - 6.Bg5
New Main Line - 6.Be3
Dragon:
Old Main Line - 9.Bc4
New Main Line - 9.O-O-O w/ 10.Qe1
I don't know current trends, but in the '70s when I faced a lot of dragons, I played 0-0-0 if playing a tactical wizard super booked up in the dragon and B-c4 otherwise. [I didnt make the decision based on playing up or down in rating.]
9.O-O-O is popular, but Bc4 is and will probably always be the big main line
I don't know about that! There are a few openings out there where the "main line" is taking a back seat and is becoming the "old main line" and there is a change of the guard for "main line".
Caro-Kann:
Old Main Line - 3.Nc3
New Main Line - 3.e5
Najdorf:
Old Main Line - 6.Bg5
New Main Line - 6.Be3
Dragon:
Old Main Line - 9.Bc4
New Main Line - 9.O-O-O w/ 10.Qe1
I’m not sure this means much, but I play all three of what you consider the old mainlines. Also, while Qe1 has risen in popularity, it is far from the only move. exd5, Nxc6, Kb1 are all played often too. I think that it while Bc4 lines can be decently held with Black(I play the black side of the dragon), human error makes the lines very playable and popular for both sides as it is hard to memorize everything. On Bc4, I think the 12.h4 Soltis lines are effectively proven a draw but I think the Burnett is still very interesting. I wrote some on it, and I would say most of the lines are objectively unclear. https://www.chess.com/blog/FizzyBand/the-burnett-variation-12-kb1-the-critical-test-of-the-sicilian-dragon-and-nc4
Also, I’d add that I think that 9.Bc4 will forever be played by people who are in denial about the dragon not being refuted. Many players still believe it’s as hispalense as Bc4 and h4 and sac, sac, and mate. Of course, that whole mindset is utterly ridiculous.
9.O-O-O is popular, but Bc4 is and will probably always be the big main line
I don't know about that! There are a few openings out there where the "main line" is taking a back seat and is becoming the "old main line" and there is a change of the guard for "main line".
Caro-Kann:
Old Main Line - 3.Nc3
New Main Line - 3.e5
Najdorf:
Old Main Line - 6.Bg5
New Main Line - 6.Be3
Dragon:
Old Main Line - 9.Bc4
New Main Line - 9.O-O-O w/ 10.Qe1
I’m not sure this means much, but I play all three of what you consider the old mainlines. Also, while Qe1 has risen in popularity, it is far from the only move. exd5, Nxc6, Kb1 are all played often too. I think that it while Bc4 lines can be decently held with Black(I play the black side of the dragon), human error makes the lines very playable and popular for both sides as it is hard to memorize everything. On Bc4, I think the 12.h4 Soltis lines are effectively proven a draw but I think the Burnett is still very interesting. I wrote some on it, and I would say most of the lines are objectively unclear. https://www.chess.com/blog/FizzyBand/the-burnett-variation-12-kb1-the-critical-test-of-the-sicilian-dragon-and-nc4
LOL - And I play none of them!
Caro-Kann - I play 3.f3
Sicilian w/ 2...d6 - I play 5.f3, though I have been looking at 5.Nc3 with 6.Nb3 against the Najdorf (and also 6.Rg1 - the Freak Attack) and possibly the 10.Qe1 line against the Dragon.
I play none of them as Black! Against e4, I play the French religiously! Almost all lines - Winawer, Classical, McCutchen, Rubinstein, Open Tarrasch, Closed Tarrasch, Universal System, etc.
Do you think Qe1 is better for white?
Asking this in a forum is irrelevant.
Why?
Because most here are amateurs and don't have a clue about it.
Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?
Just open some databases and see games from top players or GMs.
If u have megadatabase, u can see annotated games and it will help u far better than asking here or making an engine run on it.
Personnally, I don't go into open sicilians anymore, but i used to play 0-0-0 instead of Bc4, because more practical as Pfren said above.
I quite liked Qe1, but Kb1 was an option. Qe1 is ok for an advantage but the more important being it is "easy" to play compared with other lines in dragon.
Do you think Qe1 is better for white?
Asking this in a forum is irrelevant.
Why?
Because most here are amateurs and don't have a clue about it.
Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?
Just open some databases and see games from top players or GMs.
If u have megadatabase, u can see annotated games and it will help u far better than asking here or making an engine run on it.
Personnally, I don't go into open sicilians anymore, but i used to play 0-0-0 instead of Bc4, because more practical as Pfren said above.
I quite liked Qe1, but Kb1 was an option. Qe1 is ok for an advantage but the more important being it is "easy" to play compared with other lines in dragon.
The impertinence of youth. I admire it in a way, and your IM status has earned you a bit more credibility and armour from attack. But I can only tolerate so much bullcrap for so long:
1) The word "irrelevant" is a basic word and doesn't mean what you think it means. It's not like this is some strange english idiom, it's a very basic word. It's just obnoxious you coming in pretending to set down the law when you can't even get the basic language right. It's like very low rated players making basic mistakes are commenting on chess - now here you are with basic english commenting on discussion.
2) It's wrong to say amateurs don't have a clue. How much money are you making out of chess? Not a lot I would guess. In chess almost everyone is an amateur.
3) "Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?"...... wow what a mindblowing argument, you sure convinced me.
4) Megadatabase and annotated games - well then what the hell are you doing here yourself then? What are you doing here? Chess players like to discuss chess openings with each other, from the worst players to the very best.
5) Stop with this "u" nonsense. Something is not quite right about you, I don't know whether it's your age, I really don't know.
Grandmasters playing each other is not the same as lower rated players playing each other so their discussion is different. The best moves for them is different, it's also different for correspondence versus blitz. It's different for different styles of players. There is no such this as a single objective "best" unless you can prove something is a forced win, draw or loss.
If you don't agree with the idea of a forum like this then go away, it's that simple.
I have never seen someone with so high a rating make such dumb posts. You have a IM status nominally but your posts are terrible quality.
Do you think Qe1 is better for white?
Asking this in a forum is irrelevant.
Why?
Because most here are amateurs and don't have a clue about it.
Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?
Just open some databases and see games from top players or GMs.
If u have megadatabase, u can see annotated games and it will help u far better than asking here or making an engine run on it.
Personnally, I don't go into open sicilians anymore, but i used to play 0-0-0 instead of Bc4, because more practical as Pfren said above.
I quite liked Qe1, but Kb1 was an option. Qe1 is ok for an advantage but the more important being it is "easy" to play compared with other lines in dragon.
The impertinence of youth. I admire it in a way, and your IM status has earned you a bit more credibility and armour from attack. But I can only tolerate so much bullcrap for so long:
1) The word "irrelevant" is a basic word and doesn't mean what you think it means. It's not like this is some strange english idiom, it's a very basic word. It's just obnoxious you coming in pretending to set down the law when you can't even get the basic language right. It's like very low rated players making basic mistakes are commenting on chess - now here you are with basic english commenting on discussion.
2) It's wrong to say amateurs don't have a clue. How much money are you making out of chess? Not a lot I would guess. In chess almost everyone is an amateur.
3) "Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?"...... wow what a mindblowing argument, you sure convinced me.
4) Megadatabase and annotated games - well then what the hell are you doing here yourself then? What are you doing here? Chess players like to discuss chess openings with each other, from the worst players to the very best.
5) Stop with this "u" nonsense. Something is not quite right about you, I don't know whether it's your age, I really don't know.
Grandmasters playing each other is not the same as lower rated players playing each other so their discussion is different. The best moves for them is different, it's also different for correspondence versus blitz. It's different for different styles of players. There is no such this as a single objective "best" unless you can prove something is a forced win, draw or loss.
If you don't agree with the idea of a forum like this then go away, it's that simple.
I have never seen someone with so high a rating make such dumb posts. You have a IM status nominally but your posts are terrible quality.
@uhohspaghettio1 : You do not have to agree with everything other players, even titled players say, but you should have a bit more respect for them and their knowledge. You should not be criticizing titled players like this so disrespectfully, like you have done here and in your attacks against @scaryninja
Do you think Qe1 is better for white?
Asking this in a forum is irrelevant.
Why?
Because most here are amateurs and don't have a clue about it.
Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?
Just open some databases and see games from top players or GMs.
If u have megadatabase, u can see annotated games and it will help u far better than asking here or making an engine run on it.
Personnally, I don't go into open sicilians anymore, but i used to play 0-0-0 instead of Bc4, because more practical as Pfren said above.
I quite liked Qe1, but Kb1 was an option. Qe1 is ok for an advantage but the more important being it is "easy" to play compared with other lines in dragon.
The impertinence of youth. I admire it in a way, and your IM status has earned you a bit more credibility and armour from attack. But I can only tolerate so much bullcrap for so long:
1) The word "irrelevant" is a basic word and doesn't mean what you think it means. It's not like this is some strange english idiom, it's a very basic word. It's just obnoxious you coming in pretending to set down the law when you can't even get the basic language right. It's like very low rated players making basic mistakes are commenting on chess - now here you are with basic english commenting on discussion.
2) It's wrong to say amateurs don't have a clue. How much money are you making out of chess? Not a lot I would guess. In chess almost everyone is an amateur.
3) "Others think they know but why should they know better than GMs and strong GM's?"...... wow what a mindblowing argument, you sure convinced me.
4) Megadatabase and annotated games - well then what the hell are you doing here yourself then? What are you doing here? Chess players like to discuss chess openings with each other, from the worst players to the very best.
5) Stop with this "u" nonsense. Something is not quite right about you, I don't know whether it's your age, I really don't know.
Grandmasters playing each other is not the same as lower rated players playing each other so their discussion is different. The best moves for them is different, it's also different for correspondence versus blitz. It's different for different styles of players. There is no such this as a single objective "best" unless you can prove something is a forced win, draw or loss.
If you don't agree with the idea of a forum like this then go away, it's that simple.
I have never seen someone with so high a rating make such dumb posts. You have a IM status nominally but your posts are terrible quality.
Sorry if u dislike what i wrote but at least I tried to answer and help.
And u, what did u do to help?
People who go around worshiping the mediocre comments of idiot titled players are very annoying.
But @pfren and @poucin are not like this. They give us the benefit of their experience and knowledge and I appreciate their comments. I don't write in this topic before now because I know nothing about these lines, but I enjoy reading quality analysis from experienced and strong players.
@Uhohspaghettio1 You're attacking the wrong person.
1.
e4
c5
2.
Nf3
d6
3.
d4
cxd4
4.
Nxd4
Nf6
5.
Nc3
g6
6.
Be3
Bg7
7.
f3
Nc6
8.
Qd2
O-O
9.
O-O-O
d5
I would recommend 9. 0-0-0 d5 10. exd5 Nxd5 11. Nxc6 bxc6 12. Bd4. That's what i play anyway
I agree that this is a good way to play but after Bxd4 Qxd4 Qb6 black can hold with minimal difficulty