best against the london?

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Kpmanno
My opponent (playing as white) always starts with 1.d4, 2.Bf4 to setup the london system. What is the best defense/system to use against him?
llama36

There are many-many options. Pick one you enjoy.

A lot of people like to recommend systems of development with Qb6 because that's what the engine likes.

I play two different things against it, neither of them involving Qb6. I think a good option for ratings around 1200-1900 is any development scheme with a pawn on d6. With a pawn on d6 you don't let a knight go to e5, and many mindless London players only know how to put a knight on e5 and try to attack you.

At ratings lower than 1200 they probably don't have a middlegame idea in mind, they're just making ~5 moves that are London-ish then they do whatever they want, so d6 probably wont annoy them.

A basic way to play is like this (below), and in the middlegame you'll capture white's pawn on d4 to open your c file. In general the c and/or d file will open so you'll try to infiltrate to your opponent's side of the board in that area. Generally the rooks belong on c8 and d8 for that reason too.

 

Chuck639

I like the East Indian Defence because it is flexible against the London System, QGD and QGA. You can choose to stay solid with c6 or be ambitious with c5 lines.

llama36

The bishop doesn't belong on d3 when g6 is played. Just a general tip for various openings.

That's why I gave what some might argue is not a great setup... because his opponents who play the "London" aren't actually going to play accurate moves, they're going to play 4-5 London-like moves then it will get random from there.

Your setup is good too of course, it's very solid.

ThrillerFan

If you are one that normally starts 1...Nf6, the King's Indian setup works really well.

 

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Nf3 d6 5.h3 O-O 6.Be2 Nbd7 7.Nbd2 Qe8 8.O-O e5 followed by ...Qe7.

 

Note that if White plays 7.O-O and does not play Nbd2 early, you can save a tempo with 7...Ne4! 8.Nbd2 Nxd2 followed by...e5 and ...Qd8-e7 in 1 move instead of 2!

ShuckleSquad13

GothamChess suggested 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nc6 3.Nf3 f6 4.e3 Bg4 5.Be2 Bxf3 6.Bxf3 e5

A little dubious, but it works for me. This is exactly what London players DON'T want in the opening.

EKAFC
I have a study on what to do against the London https://lichess.org/study/Lymplfbj

It goes for a 1…d5 and 2…Nf6 setup with …c5 so you don’t have to change your openings as Black to play this. I used to have a winrate of about 36% against the London and after learning this system, I have a 67% winrate. It even covers the Jobava London
Ayeon30

you should try the dutch

Ayeon30

they won't see it coming

Jeffrey-SB

Give up and let me win lol joking ofc as a london player the most annoying things to deal with have been the modern and KID because it makes play more difficult

EKAFC
Attack_Defend12 wrote:

you should try the dutch

It helps but the ultimate way to prevent the London is the Englund Gambit. Only problem is that it is refutable

IHaveTHEChessSkill
Kpmanno wrote:
My opponent (playing as white) always starts with 1.d4, 2.Bf4 to setup the london system. What is the best defense/system to use against him?

just copy white's moves honestly you should be fine

sndeww
ThrillerFan wrote:

If you are one that normally starts 1...Nf6, the King's Indian setup works really well.

 

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bf4 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Nf3 d6 5.h3 O-O 6.Be2 Nbd7 7.Nbd2 Qe8 8.O-O e5 followed by ...Qe7.

 

Note that if White plays 7.O-O and does not play Nbd2 early, you can save a tempo with 7...Ne4! 8.Nbd2 Nxd2 followed by...e5 and ...Qd8-e7 in 1 move instead of 2!

Do you think that c5 or e5 is stronger?

I've always felt that e5 against those london/slav setups are a mistake, since the bishop simply retreats. And if you push the pawn to e4, then it's just a worse KIA structure with the bishop outside the pawn chain, and if you capture on d4, then after cxd4 the c pawn becomes weak. 

dude0812

There are a bunch of different setups you can play against the London and all should be objectively drawn, you can choose whatever you prefer the most.

Paatre

I usually like to play Steinitz Countergambit: 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5. It quickly disrupts the center and it also scores well for black. It's fun, try it!

 

neatgreatfire

just resign, london too op

maafernan

Hi! I checked the openings of some of your latest games, and it seems to me you normally meet 1.d4 with 1...d5 aiming at a Queens Gambit. So if then  2 Nf3, I would recommend 2...Nf6 (keeping the chance of developing your Queen' Bishop too). And if 3. Bf4 (London system) then probably the most active reply is 3...c5 ( 3...Bf5 would be possible as well). Normally White would play 4. e3, then you have the active 4...Qb6 attacking b2. White may play 5 Qc1 then 5...Nc6 , or if 5 Nc3,  5...c4 , both look fine for Black.

Good luck!

EKAFC

Here is the setup I recommend

 

LogoCzar

EKAFC
LogoCzar wrote:

 

This is the setup I play. I'm just as excited as he is about it. Also, London players are so ignorant about their opening that I would often get away with playing the ...Bf5 sacrifice without playing ...c4 first