Best defense against Scotch game?

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sumxr_txme

It gets really annoying with White's queen in the center with no way to attack it well, plus it's kind of hard to develop.

fremble
I assume you recapture in the center with the knight after white takes the pawn then (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nxd4). First off don’t do that. Play Bc5 or Nf6 instead. Learn one of those responses
Ethan_Brollier

Malaniuk. White does really well in the Exchange Schmidt and Exchange Classical, so play Bb4+ to force c3 before you play Bc5. You’ll essentially be playing a non-Exchange Classical down a tempo, which is perfectly fine because Black does very well in the Classical even down that tempo.

TheSampson

White’s… queen in the center?

This hangs a queen

I assume you mean the center game

Just play Nc6 and you’re better

Ethan_Brollier
TheSampson wrote:

White’s… queen in the center?

This hangs a queen

I assume you mean the center game

Just play Nc6 and you’re better

Nah OP means like this:

sumxr_txme
TheSampson wrote:

White’s… queen in the center?

This hangs a queen

I assume you mean the center game

Just play Nc6 and you’re better

taking with the queen is a blunder. i mean when they take with the knight and trade knights

TheSampson
sumxr wrote:
TheSampson wrote:

White’s… queen in the center?

This hangs a queen

I assume you mean the center game

Just play Nc6 and you’re better

taking with the queen is a blunder. i mean when they take with the knight and trade knights

What’s the move you play after Nxd4?

DrSpudnik

Black does not capture on d4. This puts a Q in the center and with no easy way to get rid of her.

Most common are 4...Nf6 or 4...Bc5.

TheSampson

Oh, this.

Don’t take on d4 with the knight lol, play Bc5 or Nf6

Ilampozhil25

"how do i punish that queen in the center"

the thing is, you really cant do that easily

your tries are b6 Nf6 Bc5 (bit ugly tbh, Nf6 needed to prevent Qxg7)

Ne7 Nc6 (sloooow)

and c5 (d5 is now weak)

so... white just has this powerful queen on d4 thats annoying black everywhere

attacking g7, potential d file pressure if 0-0-0, maybe on the other side

as others have said, this isnt that good (its playable ig, but you have to go Qf6 to trade i think and then white goes Be3 and defending that would just be unfun)

real options:

Bc5 (classical)

idea is to go Qf6 and force white to go c3 Be3, but Nxc6 exists; white can also go Nb3 forcing Bb6 ig

Nf6 (schmidt) 

idea is to just force lines and try to equalise asap, white can go Nc3 (transposing to four knights scotch) or Nxc6 and after bc6 e5 Nd5 is the start of it

Bb4 (malaniuk)

idk much about it, ethan has mentioned it though

Qf6 (no name)

idk why youd play this, it just tries to go into the Bc5 line

theres also 

Qh4 (steintz)

but thats mostly a trappish opening and white can sac the e pawn for development

i think the line goes Nc3 Bb4 Be2 Qxe4 but white has Nb5 ideas 

3rd move options

d6

not that good coz dxe5 and if dxe5 Qxd8 Nxd8 Nxe5, and if Nxe5 Nxe5 dxe5 Qxd8 Kxd8 and both lines black gives away something AND its a bit more boring

Nxd4

this can transpose to here or white goes Nxe5 and its even weirder so just dont

exd4 is the only good third move for black there, really

Ethan_Brollier
Ilampozhil25 wrote:

"how do i punish that queen in the center"

the thing is, you really cant do that easily

your tries are b6 Nf6 Bc5 (bit ugly tbh, Nf6 needed to prevent Qxg7)

Ne7 Nc6 (sloooow)

and c5 (d5 is now weak)

so... white just has this powerful queen on d4 thats annoying black everywhere

attacking g7, potential d file pressure if 0-0-0, maybe on the other side

as others have said, this isnt that good (its playable ig, but you have to go Qf6 to trade i think and then white goes Be3 and defending that would just be unfun)

real options:

Bc5 (classical)

idea is to go Qf6 and force white to go c3 Be3, but Nxc6 exists; white can also go Nb3 forcing Bb6 ig

Nf6 (schmidt) 

idea is to just force lines and try to equalise asap, white can go Nc3 (transposing to four knights scotch) or Nxc6 and after bc6 e5 Nd5 is the start of it

Bb4 (malaniuk)

idk much about it, ethan has mentioned it though

Qf6 (no name)

idk why youd play this, it just tries to go into the Bc5 line

theres also 

Qh4 (steintz)

but thats mostly a trappish opening and white can sac the e pawn for development

i think the line goes Nc3 Bb4 Be2 Qxe4 but white has Nb5 ideas 

3rd move options

d6

not that good coz dxe5 and if dxe5 Qxd8 Nxd8 Nxe5, and if Nxe5 Nxe5 dxe5 Qxd8 Kxd8 and both lines black gives away something AND its a bit more boring

Nxd4

this can transpose to here or white goes Nxe5 and its even weirder so just dont

exd4 is the only good third move for black there, really

I’d actually argue for Qf6 over Bc5. I forget the reasoning for exactly why it’s better but I think it avoids a move order trick that the Classical doesn’t, seeing as how you’ll be playing Qf6 in the future anyways.

ThrillerFan
TheSampson wrote:

White’s… queen in the center?

This hangs a queen

I assume you mean the center game

Just play Nc6 and you’re better

No! What he means is the dumb idea of trading knights. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nxd4? 5.Qxd4.

As mentioned before, Black should play 4...Nf6 5.Nxc6 bxc6 6.e5 Qe7 7.Qe2 or 4...Bc5 which White can play 5.Nb3, 5.Be3, or 5.Nxc6, the last of which should be answered with 5...Qf6 and recapture the Knight with the queen.

MadnessAboveAll

One word 4.Nf6

sumxr_txme
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

Malaniuk. White does really well in the Exchange Schmidt and Exchange Classical, so play Bb4+ to force c3 before you play Bc5. You’ll essentially be playing a non-Exchange Classical down a tempo, which is perfectly fine because Black does very well in the Classical even down that tempo.

I assume this is the position you mean, and I must ask how is this a non-exchange? White can still play Nxd4 after Bc5.
pleewo

The bc5 variation is the simplest imo

Badchesserrr4486999

The stockfish and lichess database tested variation is the intermezzo variation.

Badchesserrr4486999
Demir_Hadzhaismail написал:

One word 4.Nf6

He isnt lying.

Badchesserrr4486999

It ACTUALLY is.

sumxr_txme
Badchesserrr wrote:

The stockfish and lichess database tested variation is the intermezzo variation.

Thank you so much! I’ll use this in my games, it seems good happy.png

Badchesserrr4486999

Well, Maybe you are correct, BUT, he is asking for a counter to the scotch for a reason, Because he refuses to play g5 just to not face the scotch.