3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nge2 isn't all that awkward. White will get the type of position he wants (being able to play f4), which is what he is aiming for with the Vienna lines in general. It is probably just equal, but it won't be something Black will have studied in depth and White will probably have more experience in the resulting positions.
Bishop's Opening: Why 3. d3 instead of 3. Nc3?
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Aug 7, 2017
0
#23
Firethorn15 wrote:
3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nge2 isn't all that awkward. White will get the type of position he wants (being able to play f4), which is what he is aiming for with the Vienna lines in general. It is probably just equal, but it won't be something Black will have studied in depth and White will probably have more experience in the resulting positions.
It looks pretty normal to me. After 4...O-O if White plays 5.O-O then 5...Nxe4 just leads to typical positions and if 5.d3 d5 6.ed Nxd5 7.O-O Nxc3 8.bc Bd6 9.f4 is just some kind of Scotch four knights with colors reversed where the e-pawn is getting traded off for an f-pawn rather than a d-pawn so White's structure in the center is a little different.
Aug 7, 2017
0
#24
greekgift1984 wrote:
3..Bb4 is not really strong... 4. Nf3 and if Nc6 then 5 . Nd5! Followed by c3 and d4.
It's very interesting because 5.Nd5 can be met with 5...O-O when Black wants to try and get some play for the two bishops. You can get a similar positions in the English and it can get really sharp there.
Aug 7, 2017
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#25
Optimissed wrote:
3. Nc3 is no longer the Bishop's Opening, since white has transposed to the Vienna Game. That latter fact is a sufficient answer to the O.P. in itself.
Not really. If I'm playing Black against the Bishop's Opening, whether an opponent plays 3. Nc3 or 3. d3, I don't care what the opening is called: I just want to know what move to play. Now, thanks to all the people responding here, I realize I could play 3...Nxe4 instead of just developing with the usual moves ...Bc5, ...Nc6, ...d6. That gives me another option to consider since it might be considered a kind of refutation.
29 days ago
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#26
Firethorn15 wrote:
3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nge2 isn't all that awkward. White will get the type of position he wants (being able to play f4), which is what he is aiming for with the Vienna lines in general. It is probably just equal, but it won't be something Black will have studied in depth and White will probably have more experience in the resulting positions.
Nge2 runs into ...Nxe4 and white is practically worse.
29 days ago
0
#27
nc3 allows the near instant equalizer Nxe4 Nxe4 d5!. Also d3 prepares the possibility of f4 which is one of the desirable qualities of the bishops opening without gambiting the pawn. Last, they are some lines where white may want to play c3 for to prepare either d4 or b4 (to kick a c5 bishop).
29 days ago
0
#28
Sqod wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
3. Nc3 is no longer the Bishop's Opening, since white has transposed to the Vienna Game. That latter fact is a sufficient answer to the O.P. in itself.
Not really. If I'm playing Black against the Bishop's Opening, whether an opponent plays 3. Nc3 or 3. d3, I don't care what the opening is called: I just want to know what move to play. Now, thanks to all the people responding here, I realize I could play 3...Nxe4 instead of just developing with the usual moves ...Bc5, ...Nc6, ...d6. That gives me another option to consider since it might be considered a kind of refutation.
there is a lot of contested territory between the bishops opening and the vienna game as they are plenty of transpositional possibilities (both, try to refrain from playing nf3 too early, both try to play or at least keep the possibility of f4 etc) Sometimes, 3.nc3 is called the bishop's opening /vienna game hybrid for this reason.
28 days ago
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#29
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
nc3 allows the near instant equalizer Nxe4 Nxe4 d5!. Also d3 prepares the possibility of f4 which is one of the desirable qualities of the bishops opening without gambiting the pawn. Last, they are some lines where white may want to play c3 for to prepare either d4 or b4 (to kick a c5 bishop).
nxe4 is a bad reply from white, unless your opening knowledge is from 1920, it is well known the correct response is Qh5, which was found in the time of Alekhine
27 days ago
0
#30
BugMeLater wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
nc3 allows the near instant equalizer Nxe4 Nxe4 d5!. Also d3 prepares the possibility of f4 which is one of the desirable qualities of the bishops opening without gambiting the pawn. Last, they are some lines where white may want to play c3 for to prepare either d4 or b4 (to kick a c5 bishop).
nxe4 is a bad reply from white, unless your opening knowledge is from 1920, it is well known the correct response is Qh5, which was found in the time of Alekhine
it is dead equal. in fact after after qh5 black outscores white in master games. my point is why this line of the vienna is not popular and this line doesnt change that (yes its better than nxe4 so what?
3. Nc3 also allows 3...Bb4, essentially negating white's potential advantage. White has to either still play 4. d3, or the passive and awkward 4. Nge2, or sharper 4. Nf3, or 4. Nd5 with the exchange - in each case, black either gets a somewhat drawish position, or gets a strong counterplay.
3. d3 seems a bit more flexible: depending on what black plays, white can get a position more to his liking. He can play for the f4 pawn break, for example, something the 3. Nc3 Bb4 line makes harder to implement.
And, of course, Frankenstein-Dracula is not everyone's cup of tea.