That is helpful, thanks. What about Giuoco Piano?
Black-What to play against Giuoco Piano/Ruy Lopez?
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I play the Two Knights (Berlin vs Ruy) because it's the same setup and I get my pieces out faster than most other defenses for black. A lot of counter attacking with the Two Knights. Also, if it's blitz, I can incorporate the Fishing Pole from this formation once white castles. I don't like playing 3. ... Bc5 because white may have a shot at the Evans Gambit, an opening I play for white.
Thank you guys.
cornbeefhashvili wrote:
I play the Two Knights (Berlin vs Ruy) because it's the same setup and I get my pieces out faster than most other defenses for black. A lot of counter attacking with the Two Knights. Also, if it's blitz, I can incorporate the Fishing Pole from this formation once white castles. I don't like playing 3. ... Bc5 because white may have a shot at the Evans Gambit, an opening I play for white.
I play Evan's Gambit too. It is really easy for black to simply die from the huge attack white generates, and you have to be ultra careful.
Could you post some games where black wins vs these openings?
Unleash_the_Queens wrote:
cornbeefhashvili wrote:
I play the Two Knights (Berlin vs Ruy) because it's the same setup and I get my pieces out faster than most other defenses for black. A lot of counter attacking with the Two Knights. Also, if it's blitz, I can incorporate the Fishing Pole from this formation once white castles. I don't like playing 3. ... Bc5 because white may have a shot at the Evans Gambit, an opening I play for white.
I play Evan's Gambit too. It is really easy for black to simply die from the huge attack white generates, and you have to be ultra careful.
According to Nimzowitsch it may be best to decline the gambit since taking it gives white tempi:
Nimzo is a bit out of date for opening advice.
The most comfortable lines for black are Ba5 and Nge7 after accepting.
pfren wrote:
Winning is not exactly relevant to the opening... but anyway- here is a win:
Of course 9...g5 is a risky move- Black has to analyse properly the consequences of 10.Nxg5.
Computer aided analysis shows that the game is about level after many complications, although I think Black must be extremely careful.
I meant winning the opening, not the whole game. That is, gaining a better position or more material for the middle game.
Scottrf wrote:
Nimzo is a bit out of date for opening advice.
The most comfortable lines for black are Ba5 and Nge7 after accepting.
Come on... Everybody loves Nimzo.
That will always be due to mistakes and so not too important. You can't get a better position as black against good play in these openings.
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:
Unleash_the_Queens wrote:
cornbeefhashvili wrote:
I play the Two Knights (Berlin vs Ruy) because it's the same setup and I get my pieces out faster than most other defenses for black. A lot of counter attacking with the Two Knights. Also, if it's blitz, I can incorporate the Fishing Pole from this formation once white castles. I don't like playing 3. ... Bc5 because white may have a shot at the Evans Gambit, an opening I play for white.
I play Evan's Gambit too. It is really easy for black to simply die from the huge attack white generates, and you have to be ultra careful.
According to Nimzowitsch it may be best to decline the gambit since taking it gives white tempi:
Yeah, I've too heard that declining the gambit is better.
Scottrf wrote:
That will always be due to mistakes and so not too important. You can't get a better position as black against good play in these openings.
True that.
If you want to post moves, do it with a diagram or something. The notation confuses me terribly.
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I don't know, it doesn't look exactly thrilling for black after 6.c3 Ng6 7.a5. Apart from having a problem defending the e4 pawn, the position definetely looks better for white I think.
pfren wrote:
Unleash_the_Queens wrote:
I don't know, it doesn't look exactly thrilling for black after 6.c3 Ng6 7.a5. Apart from having a problem defending the e4 pawn, the position definetely looks better for white I think.
You just think, it seems. Black is perfectly OK, and 7.a5 is a positional mistake (I guess you meant 6...Nf6, since 6...Ng6 is slightly illegal).
This is WHY I told you trying to understand typical patterns for both sides on those common pawn structures, and not learning variations by heart.
I cannot see any problem with the defence of the e4 pawn- isn't d2-d3 a legal move? Factly, after 7.d3 (instead of 7.a5?!) you get by transposition a much analysed Giuoco Piano variation, where Black is quite comfortable.
About d2-d3, I thought that white would just waste some time and mess up his pawns, but it looks ok now that I look at it again. Also yes, I meant Nf6, sorry. Ng6 is just SLIGHTLY impossible.
pfren wrote:
The list of sound Ruy Lopez sound lines is too large to mention. You could start from solid classical stuff:
These classical lines are mostly positional understanding: Little theory to memorize, and many pieces on the board- so the opponent has fair chances to go wrong.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "positional understanding"?
After ...Bb6 I would be looking to attack the Black King down the centre file and hoping that Black plays Nxe4 (at my level Black might!) Castling would be my next move, followed by heaping all the pressure I could on e5 and e6 to clear the p and N for a devastating attack.
Hope chess is really nice, the only problem with it being that it does not work if the opponent does not lose his mind.
Black should naturally answer 6.0-0 with 6...0-0, and forget about the e4 pawn for the moment. This does not even require any sort of "positional understanding", but rather following the basic opening principles.
At my level that hope gets fulfilled :)
I'd count "move all your pieces once before taking a second move" as a "basic opening principle". But "don't take the unprotected e4 pawn" is not on my (very) basic list as a principle. I know not to take it in this particular situation. But is there a good list of *all* these basic principles somewhere?
In any case, seriously good people do play that awful N capture on e4, as the 365 database shows, here's a 2300 ranked player losing to an unrated player after using it:
I have heard that the best thing to do while you are trying to learn better chess is to play 1...e5 as black versus the 1.e4. So, as the most common replies are the Ruy Lopez and Giuoco Piano (I play it as white as well), what do you do against them? Especially for Ruy Lopez, as a LOT of players try it.