Bogo or QID?

If I am using the Nimzo, I will need the Bogo or QID when my opponent plays Nf3.

What are the pros and cons to Bogo v. QID? Or are the "euqal" more or less? Should I learn and/or use both? Is there one more effective at winning or at drawing? Thanks.

Ok.  I just looked at the Wikipedia article on the Bogo.  And honestly, I don't like it.  it seems to lead to a very sharp opening with some drawish lines.  Plus when you check the kin with 3...Bb4+ you are leaving your bishop undefended which can then be attacked forcing you to make a decision, and that decision seems to have a lot of consequences.

I"ve played the Nimzo/Queen's Indian and liked it a lot.  It's much more flexable than the Bogo, as all you are doing is fighting for control of the center instead of committing the bishop to an unsupported attack.

You can also play 3...d5 and just transpose into a regular Queen's Gambit as well, so there is that to keep in mind.

I've read that the Bogo-Indian is drawish because it exchanges bishops early on. I once looked at the Queen's Indian when I was looking for d4 defenses, and I hated it. Statistically Black gets lousy results, usually only drawing at best, and it was way too cramped for my taste. You should specify whether you're looking for a dynamic, counterattacking defense as Black, versus a solid, quiet, drawish defense.

Really, I think the only problem with the Bogo-Indian is the higher number of draws that it can get, but it depends on the line that you play.  Of course, 4.Bd2 Bxd2 is notoriously drawish, but when I played the Bogo-Indian I got good games with 4...a5, which also helps since I can transpose to an Open Catalan line that I also like playing from a QGA move order.  Of course the QID is more flexible and might be objectively be slightly better, but there isn't anything too bad about the Bogo either.

There was a same question in forum, not long ago. For a long time QueensIndian was thought the more correct opening, and Bogo somewhat second class. Recently though Aronian's Qc2 gambit in the g3 Ba6 line causing black problems, whilst Bb4xbd2 line in Bogo line is super solid. Both openings are very drawish if white chooses.

Karpov played Nimzo/QID...of course theory changes...

Chess Opening by Black, Explained 2nd Edition, GM Lev Alburt, GM Roman Dzindzichashvili, and GM Eugene Perelshteyn advocated the Bogo. I am not sure if they explain why. Some say there are theoretical holes in that repertoire book (at least in the 1st edition), but I am not sure if they relate to the Bogo or how serious they are...or what has been remedied in the second edition.

Nick DeFirmian plays the Benoni on Nf3. There are several sharp lines eliminated with the N on f3.

this is so bad

BMC beat me to the punch. The Modern Benoni is an excellent option for Class players all the way up to Topalov's level! 

Choose an active opening you understand and like. Another option is to play 3...d5 and go into Q Gambit lines.

Thanks for all the comments thus far. Really interesting and helpful posts.

I plan on trying many things (Modern Benoni is on my list as achja was talking to me about it earlier). I'll try Bogo AND QID.

It's nice to have some alternate lines (so I can keep up with Aronian because Carlsen simply can't do so like I can.) :P I'd better see if anything changed with the Najdorf this week...brb...

I have not forgotten about the QG either, although I am more familiar with it's emloyment from White's perspective.

I saw the 4...Qe7 line in Alburt's book, but not the 4...a5 line, so thanks much for posting that nice game. Nbd2 was also in that book. I don't know if it is the best book or not, and what holes it may possess, but it is certainly plenty good enough for me now. I can get the QID lines from elsewhere, and fill in any holes if I get to a level where it is important and Aronian is across the table.

The other thread where QI and Bogo discussed is here

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/bogo-indian?page=3

It's interesting what does and doesn't filter down to club play. 4...Qe7 has remained a firm club player favorite even though positions after 5.g3 Nc6 6Nc3 with misplaced knight, don't look very attractive for black. Suppose developing with 6bg2, 0.0 etc happens more often, "doing the unpacking" is very popular with 1.d4 club players.

Getting information on 4...a5 is not so easy though. For exmple, wanted to checkout IM Pfren's game in "The Modern Bogo" book, but chouldn't find anything. That one is quite an infuriating book, it covers some lines in incredible detail, but has huge gaps. Suppose with New in chess books have  a lot of information can cut and paste from their magazine, and where authors need to do orginal research it doesn't happen.

Edit now found discussion of line of IM Pfren's game. In their analysis 12...Nb6 is a novelty, with point of preventing white's plan of 13f3 pxp 14Qxp Na4 exchanging bishop pair. 14...a4 equal, keeping position closed facing bishop. (15Bb2 d5) and evaluate the position after nb-d7 as unclear. They think the exchange 9pxp is more testing. In one game I was involved with certainly made the mistake of thinking helped black's cause. The line is interesting for KingsIndian players because of similarity of d6, e5 pawn structure, but need to be aware of effect of positioning of dark square bishops.

@TwoMove

Thanks for the thread. There must be more info online somewhere. It will come soon enough I'm sure. Nice to have it in advance though.

For 4...BxBch there is 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ZTwR9tabM

Crushing white is a bit optimistic title, but does show how can cut down what need to know. For example, against 3g3, catalan, can still play Bb4ch but if playing QI would have to learn something else. Personally think it is an enormous amout of work to play e6 systems ambitously, so don't bother. When playing signifcantly lower rated players prefer g6 and KingsIndian setups.

My preference after 3. Nf3 is just to play d5 and transpose to a QGD.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there really aren't any good books that cover the 4...a5 line other than the Modern Bogo, which I haven't read.  I myself had to learn the lines through any games I could find, which is much easier nowadays with the databases available.

Oh, and you might find today's game of Bacrot-Naiditsch interesting.  Started out as a Nbd2 Bogo-Indian before turning into a Bogo-QID hybrid of sorts.  Even if you end up not too interested in the opening, still a fun game to look though.

Avrukh's excellent Grandmaster Repertoire: 1.d4 Vol 2 covers a5, but from White's perspective. I would strongly recommend anyone who wants to play the Bogo to peruse Avrukh's chapters. They may be the best chapters on the Bogo in print, even if it is from White's perspective. Be aware that White can transpose into Catalan lines this way, which is diving into the deep end.

The Kenilworth articles are fun, but often full of holes, both in terms of analysis and the theory they choose to cover. Caveat Emptor on those. 

Does Avrukh cover White playing 3.Nf3 in the QG? Does he cover lines that lead into Black defending with Nimzo and/or QID?

I believe Schandorff's book for playing 1.d4 (White's perspective -- Indian defenses) covers  3.Nc3 lines and not 3.Nf3....I don't think Bogo or QID are covered at all in Schandorff.

Yes it is. These odd openings are strange...