Budapest with Nc3

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ng4 4.Bf4 Nc6 5.Nf3 Bb4+ 6.Nc3

mandelshtam v Killabeez: http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=9994029
another forum: http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/why-play-the-dutch?page=3

Uh Ozzie, what are you asking about?

We're analyzing some critical lines in the Budapest Gambit (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5?!)

I can only look into the comments in detail when I'm home, either at night or in the morning. So what is the current most critical line then, to either of you.

I must say I am starting with the premise that this is an unsound opening. But perhaps I am wrong. How popular is it at the top level these days?

That is most definitely not the most critical line for white to play. See the title of the thread. :-)

I don't think mandelshtam is still around.

Gonnosuke wrote: For the record, the 7.Qb3 "counter-gambit" line that we discussed in the original thread fails because black isn't required to play 6...Qe7.  According to my database, black scores nearly 10% better if he doubles white's pawns immediately with 6...Bxc3.  Interestingly, CEGT testing seems to support this as the only game that white was able to win in this particular test was the game where black moved 6...Qe7.  Obviously, this proves nothing but it's certainly interesting and relevant.

------------------------------

Reflecting on this overnight I have a problem with the word "fails". Can I restate it that 6...Qe7 is not strongest because of 7.Qb3, which leads to the improvement of 6...Bxc3+.

If you meant that it "fails" as a refutation of the opening, or it fails as being a detailed analysis of the critical lines, then ok.

Regarding post #12, what is the implication of the damning statistic? Is it that 6.Nc3 isn't played in GM-GM games, or is it that the Budapest itself is not played?

What is the most popular line (if not the most critical)?

 wow... thanks for the lesson about Budapest Gonnosuke and Ozzie_C_Cobblepot

I go thru phases with openings.  At the time of the game, I was pretty confident that Black could draw the ending and put pressure because of the crippled pawns.  But as the game progressed, I realized that White just has the pawn and that the doubled pawns are not as bad as they seem.  And I resigned because I was down a pawn for no comp and I had too many games going.  So I gave up the Budapest and learned the KID and Benoni.  Hope you learned something from my game though.

That was Karpov's choice when Short sprang the Budapest on him in their Candidates match in 1992.  

Of course, this thread is about the Nc3 line, I know  

 He is but has another account named achmatova.  he doesn't use mandelshtam anymore for some reason.

I just started using the Budapest as my "go-to" answer for the queen's pawn, since I've had really bad luck with anything else.  Of course, the Budapest is not without its foibles...  Does anyone have a reliable defense that they like better?

You can't really go wrong with the Slav.

killabeez, mendelshtam closed that account because he had been using an engine for analysis at some point, he assumed it was legal as in ICCF. When he discovered he was wrong he closed tnhat account and opened the new one you refer to.  I recall he only gotten the engine recently at the time.

How come his profile doesn't say the account is closed?

http://www.chess.com/echess/profile/mandelshtam

Does he have two live accounts?  Can you do that?

I think he voluntarily stopped using that account. I think the staff was willing to let him keep it.

So much honesty ... really, touching :)

If white puts his knight at d2 instead then black has that smothered mate knight check to hope for, using the pin on the d pawn, but people rarely are willing to give you that, y'know?

I just looked at the Karpov games. The one against Short was interesting. Either Karpov was in time trouble or he was "happy with a draw" in the match sense.

I didn't realize that a3 didn't need to be played!