Chess Openings Trainer

Hi all,

I was hoping you could help me.

I am trying to learn new openings.  While the book lines are great, they dont do much for me most of the time, because 80% of the time most, people dont comply and play the same lines.  They introduce other moves, which i need to be able to train against and be able to offer the best refutations.  Book lines wont help me with this.  I also dont want online databases the i have to drill down agains.  I want a trainer, that the computer does a move, and then i make my move and it tells me if it was the best move or not.  and if it was we go on to the next move, ect... I would think that this is the most basic of basic things, but still i havnt found one.  I dont want to enter in book openings or databases, after the first few moves the computer needs to work them out, and at random say top 5 moves or a blunder test me for my response, otherwise really there is no way to improve.  Chess.com isnt that good because if you get an opponent that does open that variation, they soon change and its lost, and you have to do another 10-20 games before you can get another go at it.  So really, its quite frustrating, with so many books out there, i refuse to belive something as simple as this isnt out there? surely not?

 

 

Hiarcs chess app kind of does this. And maybe chessable.

I downloaded the free version of Chess Position Trainer 5.12.  I am now entering my opening rep.  I think there is a way to do what you want.  Not sure yet though.  I need to read the manual.  Someday.

nah i tried this , its for advance people, i dont want to have to enter my own stuff, it will never get done or take for ever.

 

 

I’d prefer it as software or app on my iPhone. Just a nice overlay or highlighting of pieces indicating the moves in strength would do now to be honest.

TINSTAABO

"There is no such thing as a 'best opening.' Each player should choose an opening that attracts him. Some players are looking for a gambit as White, others for Black gambits. Many players that are starting out (or have bad memories) want to avoid mainstream systems, others want dynamic openings, and others want calm positional pathways. It’s all about personal taste and personal need.
For example, if you feel you’re poor at tactics you can choose a quiet positional opening (trying to hide from your weakness and just play chess), or seek more dynamic openings that engender lots of tactics and sacrifices (this might lead to more losses but, over time, will improve your tactical skills and make you stronger)." - IM Jeremy Silman (January 28, 2016)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/opening-questions-and-a-dream-mate

nah nah nah, thats not the point...   im not talking about best openings, i'm talking variations of openings, for instance, take the Scandinavian, there are 2 main lines, SURE no worries.  BUT ive had people play 10 different moves on move 2 from white! from the white bishop, either horse, to the queen brought, out,  i NEED to know the best refutation to these questionable non book lines moves, if i explore say Q move on the second move, in this position for black, the best move ie ????  Sure i can fall back on to my 10 rules of openings, 1. move 1 pawn, 2 develop knights, 3 develop bishops, 4. castle, ect.. SURE but i need to have it backed up in actual theory, and i dont like having to drill down, i just want it shown to me, usually the next move is between -1 to +1 better, i want to see which the computer thinks, i have started putting together and excel spread sheet, but its too difficult, and id like an interactive one that i can just train against, with the over all goal, say after 1000 games, i should be able to see my score of all of the possibilities, and if i can get a perfect score for the first 10 moves of that opening then you can say you have mastered it and are in a great position.  With so many engines out there, i cant believe someone hasnt come up with a tool like this, and no chess positional trainer, is a clunky tool that does nothing move than allow you to enter in moves and play some, with poor notation at best, no over lays, ect...

If there are not best openings, why should there be best refutations? Why should there be refutations at all? Do all computers come to the same conclusions? Is a computer necessarily right anyway?

https://www.chess.com/article/view/should-we-trust-computers

Anyway, to find out what a computer thinks about a "non book" position, isn't it going to have to do its usual time-consuming thinking process? And even apart from all these issues, is it really desirable to work towards this sort of goal?

"... Overall, I would advise most players to stick to a fairly limited range of openings, and not to worry about learning too much by heart. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)
"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)

well yes, IT does have to work it, out, i mean even chess.com analysis does work it out for the first 8 moves of stockfish8.js and you can chose to select a time limit, 1 minute, 10 , 30 or unlimited, i get silly results, in it, like a6 and h6 get  +1.2 and are the best moves, when clearly they are not!  the problem is, that people that play online, do not stick to the "book" lines, they play crazy stuff, and i need to train against crazy stuff, in that way too! otherwise whats the point, except if i meet someone who remembers the book line, and most players simply dont member the book line all the way so if i do remember it, that move isnt the best.  Just give me a over lay on each piece of the move score, thats all i want, even my iOS chess game shows me the top 3 moves, and highlights the best...    i simply want to play the same position with variations over an over again, with randomness proportional to popularity of moves played, and just go from there.  Ie, in this position, if i did this (move x) what would you respond, if i get it right, ting, if not bing, show the result, or try again.

Chess is about being able to work out what to do, in most positions, not having something memorized.

"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

Is this sort of data worth attempting to memorize? How much can realistically be memorized anyway? What happens when your memory runs out and you have spent so much of your time working on moving by memory?

well of course, you will start with the main lines first, ie the Scandinavian has 2 main lines, exchange or push.  Its not simply about memorising, its about validating that idid work out the right move, and making sure i didnt miss something.  this is an interactive way, books either are to difficult, or simply dont cover it.  Knowing the main lines isnt enough really esp at the lower levels, im sure a GM would be able to work it out and they wouldnt veer far from the book lines, but we are not GMs;.

What makes you think there is a "right move"? After you come up with a move, can't you ask a computer to evaluate the position? Anyway, there is software to help with opening learning. The thing is that there is no general agreement on what is to be learned, so, in most cases, you have to decide that.

"... For inexperienced players, I think the model that bases opening discussions on more or less complete games that are fully annotated, though with a main focus on the opening and early middlegame, is the ideal. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2010)
"... Everyman Chess has started a new series aimed at those who want to understand the basics of an opening, i.e., the not-yet-so-strong players. ... I imagine [there] will be a long series based on the premise of bringing the basic ideas of an opening to the reader through plenty of introductory text, game annotations, hints, plans and much more. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627055734/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen38.pdf
"The way I suggest you study this book is to play through the main games once, relatively quickly, and then start playing the variation in actual games. Playing an opening in real games is of vital importance - without this kind of live practice it is impossible to get a 'feel' for the kind of game it leads to. There is time enough later for involvement with the details, after playing your games it is good to look up the line." - GM Nigel Davies (2005)

"... I feel that the main reasons to buy an opening book are to give a good overview of the opening, and to explain general plans and ideas. ..." - GM John Nunn (2006)

And your opponent probably is not a GM either. You don't want to try to "know" GM moves outside the main lines. You want to be better than your opponent at coming up with something over the board.

Understand the OP's pain. I have looked in vain so far myself. Chess Openings Wizard, Chess Positions Trainer, and Chess Opening Trainer (be careful, there is more than 1 app with this name) are the software that has training option, but you have to input the whole repertoire or buy their already-made books, which have all the same limited coverage as other opening books. Chessable is the only website I know that has the training option, but again, you either buy one of their repertoires or input your own for training.

For reference, the chessOK site has an "Opening Tree" that gives engine-generated numeric values to many if not all of the first several moves in a chess game (don't think they do obvious blunders). Some of these lines go through complete games, but oddball moves/lines (as you might see in low-level games) will stop pretty quickly. And, of course, it is not a trainer.

Try www.365chess.com Opening Explorer. 

White has 20 possibilities for first move and black has 20 possible replies, assume it's 20 for 2nd and 3rd move as well and you have 64000000 possible first 3 moves. Ok, most of them are wacko combinations but you begin to understand the futility of learning every possible line.

 

I'd suggest it's better to learn the logic behind the opening moves e.g. knight on f6 attack/defends the same squares as knight on c3 so you'll often see these moves one after the other. Or if your knight is on c3 and the black bishop comes to b4, it's a pin and you should break it by chasing away the bishop, castling or putting your bishop in between.

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yes yes you are right, dumb idea, ill go back to my books, thanks for your help.