Choosing a Ruy Lopez Line for Black

So, as the title says, I'm attempting to choose a line to play against the Ruy Lopez. I'm preferably looking for an interesting and active line that (preferably) doesn't have any forced draws, and gives good chances to play for a win as Black. Any suggestions? (and if you know a good book for your suggested variation, please mention it :))

Not really.

The Zaitsev has a forced draw. The Marshall is a real lot of theory for a probable draw. The Berlin has little chance to play for a win. Most Chigorin lines are anything but active. In Play 1. e4 e5! Davies suggestes forced draws, in the In Keres lines with 12. exd4.

I would have to suggest something I have never played myself. The Modern Steinitz has  active and interesting lines as well as safe lines. The Neo-Archangel is another option.  The open Spanish is probably another option. But I never played these lines, so I don't really know.

The Modern Steinitz looks interesting to me but i'm not sure there's no forced draw after:

I think the Archangel and Open Ruy are good active options and the Breyer also seems to enter into that category(although i may be wrong).

Your not suppose to accept the c pawn in that line. Just decline it with d3 or Bb7.

Maybe I should change my second answer to Black does not have to take to the c pawn. Bronstein's line 8...dxc3 9. Qh5 Qe7 10. Nxc3 is not best, 9...Qd7 10. Nxc3 Nf6 11. Qe2 Be7 looks good for Black. 9...g6 Qd5 10. Be6 11. Qc6+ Bd7 12. Qxc3 still looks like it gives White compensation.

IMO Black is playing for a draw in the 4.Nc3 lines of the Schliemann, or at least that's the impression I got from watching Khachiyan's (sp?) videos on it. From what I've seen of it, the Archangel (I'm honestly not sure what the Neo-Arachangel  is ) seems pretty interesting, and I'll definitely consider it. The other thing I'm actually considering is, surprisingly, the Marshall Attack. I bought Gustafsson's FritzTrainers on 1.e4 e5 (see my previous forum post) and he says that he has avoided the lines that lead to "two result" endings, and I'm guessing that maybe some of the repetitions can be avoided? I haven't watched that much of it yet though...

The Neo-Archangel is 1 e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Bc5 without having to type one of those weird Os with a line in it.

How much time do you have to spend on chess? How old are you? How good is your memory? What is your over the board rating? You have to take these factors into account when choosing a Ruy Lopez line.

Assuming those questions were only partly rhetorical, I have at least 2-3 hrs a day to spend on chess, I'm 15 with a pretty good memory, and I'm 1900 OTB...

They were not rhetorical. I had to give up the Gruenfeld in college because I no longer had the time to keep abreast of theory. I actually played the Seville Variation. That and the Najdorf Sicilian. If you want to learn the Marshall, learn the Marshall it has a good theoretical reputation, you have 2-3 hours a day to spend on it and a rating high enough to indicate that you can play chess not theory. If you want a back up system, the Zaitsev might do. This would involve playing the mainline with 17...f5, which is again something you can only do if you have 2-3 hours a day to devote to chess. As for me, I think I will start to settle down with an old fashion Modern Steinitz, I am only going to get older.

The Breyer is not exactly active, black is generally playing a slightly worse position and trying to hold a draw.

I don't see what's wrong with the chigorin though, at least below the master level:

The Breyer approach with c5 rather than c6 seemed somewhat active to me. But that's the idea i got from Kaufman's book, which is not very good.

Even with c5, black has trouble finding any active winning plans in the Breyer. It's a great drawing weapon though, and Magnus has played it so it can't be bad.

See this old Michael Adams game I found in the chess.com DB.

Black equalized and easily drew, but I doubt he was ever playing for a win.

I've been having the same issue. I am in limbo between the Marshall and the Open variations, having seen forced draws in both. White does have to know a large bit of theory to force a draw, and Black has plenty of sidelines in both variations that keep the game interesting. Below master level, it's unlikely anyone is booked up enough to force a draw against both.

how about the open spanish?

@ Shepi13

I agree that the Chigorin can be played for a win below master level. However, you really should give the mainline; instead of 14. d5 the mainline is 14. Nb3 a5 15. Be3 a4 16. Nbd2. Now Black can play (a) 16...Nb4 17. Bb1 Bb7 18. a3 Nc6 19. Bd3 Na5 or (b) 16...Bd7 17. Rc1 Qb7 which is probably the modern taybia of the Chigorin variation. See for example Kramnik-Adams M-Tel Masters 2005; Ivanchuk-Svidler, Nanjing 2008 or Perez-Svidler, Nice 2010. There is plenty of play in these positions, but as far as I know they are not covered in a book and you would have to work them out yourself.

I think you should try to avoid playing against the Ruy Lopez, once you see your opponent play 1.e4, 2.Nf3, consider playing the Petrov Defense by playing 1.e5, 2.Nf6.

Works a treat normally, look into this defense, totally ruins whites plans to play Bb5.

Though I find the classical berlin defense to be just as good, the Kings Indian Defense fairs well too. 

Checkout those two opening responses for the Ruy Lopez, Classical Berlin Defense and the Kings Indian Defense.

There's a King's Indian Defense to the Ruy Lopez?!

The more I look into the Marshall, the more I actually realize I don't want to play it with Black...the Open appeals to me at first sight, I think that'll be my next thing to look into...

I used to face the problem of finding a way to confront the Ruy and still play unbalanced positions. I tried a lot, from the Zaitsev, Schliemann, Marshall, Open, etc... Overall, I believe that the whole idea of black not being able to "play for a win" is incorrect. Over the board, both sides are going to make mistakes and mistakes can be taken advantage of no matter what opening the positon came from.

From what I have seen in this forum, it seems you are looking for a way to meet the Ruy that creates an unbalanced game. I would go for Open Ruy there.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying about players making mistakes in practical play, but what I meant by "play for a win" is to avoid lines where Black's goal, really, is a draw, like in the Breyer and Marshall endgames. Thanks for the recommendation, like I said, I do think I will look into the Open.