Do I need a recent book on QGD Tartakower or Lasker as Black, or is Sadler good?

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mate_in_n

Hi! I'm looking into learning a proper response to the Queen's Gambit as Black, and the most sound and popular variants seem to be the Tartakower and Lasker variations. I've heard lots of praise of Sadler's QGD treatise. Is that a good book to get for my purpose, or have there been enough developments since 2000 that I need to get a more recent book?

I'm also wondering what the main differences in style are between the Tartakower and the Lasker variations?

Cheers

Nerwal

"the most sound and popular variants seem to be the Tartakower and Lasker variations."

Probably not anymore since nowadays after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6, 4. cxd5 is the main move and 4. Nf3 is as popular as 4. Bg5, and after 4. Bg5 Be7 some spoilers play 5. e3 and try to avoid Nf3 for the time being.

The Sadler book is an excellent starting point, but the modern trend is to explore dozens of new relatively unexplored sidelines (especially in the QGD since it's a fundamentally sound system) and Sadler's books were always about mainlines.

mate_in_n
Nerwal wrote:

"the most sound and popular variants seem to be the Tartakower and Lasker variations."

Probably not anymore since nowadays after 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6, 4. cxd5 is the main move and 4. Nf3 is as popular as 4. Bg5, and after 4. Bg5 Be7 some spoilers play 5. e3 and try to avoid Nf3 for the time being.

The Sadler book is an excellent starting point, but the modern trend is to explore dozens of new relatively unexplored sidelines (especially in the QGD since it's a fundamentally sound system) and Sadler's books were always about mainlines.

Thank you Nerwal! Interesting to hear about the modern trend of system-thinking and unexplored sidelines. Have you got any book recommendations on this?

I've got some responses to the exchange variation, so I'm not worried about that one. Regarding 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e3, it seems likely to get into Tartakower or Lasker after the popular database moves 5. ... O-O 6. Nf3, or am I missing something?

Nerwal
timnf a écrit :

Have you got any book recommendations on this?

I've got some responses to the exchange variation, so I'm not worried about that one. Regarding 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e3, it seems likely to get into Tartakower or Lasker after the popular database moves 5. ... O-O 6. Nf3, or am I missing something?

 No recommendation I am afraid as I don't buy opening chess books anymore. Database era.

Some players will use this move order to avoid 6. Nf3 and play things like 6. Qc2 or 6. Rc1 to get a completely different game from the Lasker/Tartakower, or at least a position where they keep the option to play Ne2. For a good portion of White players the Lasker/Tartakower has the same effect as the Orthodox decades ago, they just want something new.

TwoMove

The exchange variation is less dangerous theoretically than ever has been. There was a quality chess book about the queens gambit declined which went into the middle game ideas after h6, then Nh5. After 4pxp Nxp can be played too, with semi-tarrasch type positions. Would play that myself avoids the type of positions 1.d4 club players like, were can potter about not doing a awful lot. 

I don't think the Rc1, and Qc2 sidelines after Bg5 are much to worry about, or stop black main ideas in the tartakower or Lasker really.  Sokolov's "winning chess middlegames" covered a lot of Tartakower games. Nigel Short games worth looking at.

WCPetrosian

Declining The Queen's Gambit by John Cox is a repertoire book (published in 2011). The author gives both the Lasker's and Tartakower as the two defenses to play. 

The book also covers in repertoire form for black when white plays alternatives to the main line or the Catalan. 

I prefer the Tarrasch Defense (3...c5). I use the repertoire book Fight 1 d4 With The Tarrasch Defense by Vassilios Kotronias (published in 2019).

 

ThrillerFan
timnf wrote:

Hi! I'm looking into learning a proper response to the Queen's Gambit as Black, and the most sound and popular variants seem to be the Tartakower and Lasker variations. I've heard lots of praise of Sadler's QGD treatise. Is that a good book to get for my purpose, or have there been enough developments since 2000 that I need to get a more recent book?

I'm also wondering what the main differences in style are between the Tartakower and the Lasker variations?

Cheers

 

Get John Cox's book "Declining the Queen's Gambit".

mate_in_n
TwoMove wrote:

The exchange variation is less dangerous theoretically than ever has been. There was a quality chess book about the queens gambit declined which went into the middle game ideas after h6, then Nh5. After 4pxp Nxp can be played too, with semi-tarrasch type positions. Would play that myself avoids the type of positions 1.d4 club players like, were can potter about not doing a awful lot. 

I don't think the Rc1, and Qc2 sidelines after Bg5 are much to worry about, or stop black main ideas in the tartakower or Lasker really.  Sokolov's "winning chess middlegames" covered a lot of Tartakower games. Nigel Short games worth looking at.

Thank you! Any chance you remember the name of that quality chess book?

mate_in_n
brink2017 wrote:

Declining The Queen's Gambit by John Cox is a repertoire book (published in 2011). The author gives both the Lasker's and Tartakower as the two defenses to play. 

The book also covers in repertoire form for black when white plays alternatives to the main line or the Catalan. 

I prefer the Tarrasch Defense (3...c5). I use the repertoire book Fight 1 d4 With The Tarrasch Defense by Vassilios Kotronias (published in 2019).

 

Thanks for the Cox recommendation. I skimmed through a couple pages and saw very few explanations and strategical ideas, mostly lists of variations. I'm new enough to QGD that I'd need some more guidance.

I'll read up on Tarrasch, thanks! I was already considering the Semi-Tarrasch and searching for a book.

najdorf96

indeed. I'm an Old School Queen's Gambit player w/both sides and yeah, the only book I could ever recommend is an "ancient" work by GM Drazen Marovic~"Play the Queen's Gambit" Maxwell Macmillan Chess circa 1991. For me, in my formative years a "must read". I hope this classic helps you as much as it helped me. Best wishes ✌🏼

GaborHorvath

I only know the Sadler book, and it is a really good one. I don't think the classic QGD theory changes that much, so you should be fine with it. 

Generally, I am not a big fan of Kotronias opening books. I have his KID books (five volumes), but they are so detailed and dense that they are practically unreadable. 

There is another book worth considering: Play 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 from Alexei Kornev. I haven't read this one, but his opening books are normally pretty good. He actually analyses 7. - Nbd7 instead of the Tartakower or the Lasker. 

 

 

tygxc

@1
"have there been enough developments since 2000"
Check a data base for more recent games.

ThrillerFan
timnf wrote:
brink2017 wrote:

Declining The Queen's Gambit by John Cox is a repertoire book (published in 2011). The author gives both the Lasker's and Tartakower as the two defenses to play. 

The book also covers in repertoire form for black when white plays alternatives to the main line or the Catalan. 

I prefer the Tarrasch Defense (3...c5). I use the repertoire book Fight 1 d4 With The Tarrasch Defense by Vassilios Kotronias (published in 2019).

 

Thanks for the Cox recommendation. I skimmed through a couple pages and saw very few explanations and strategical ideas, mostly lists of variations. I'm new enough to QGD that I'd need some more guidance.

I'll read up on Tarrasch, thanks! I was already considering the Semi-Tarrasch and searching for a book.

 

You should still get the Cox book.

Read the Sadler book FIRST!

Then, to get a little deeper into the weeds, read the Cox book.

The suggestion is not "instead of" but rather "in addition to" the Sadler book.

 

You do not master an opening based on a single opening book.  I have probably read two dozen books on the French and maybe 3 books on the Caro-Kann.  There is a reason I understand the French more than any other opening.

 

If you really want to understand the Tartakower and Lasker variations of the QGD, you need both sources.  Sadler for the basics and then Cox for a deeper self study.  Do not just read words on the page and push wood.  Analyze the positions as the lines Progress.  1 page of an opening book ought to take you over 30 minutes.  It is not the same as studying a collection of Lasker's games.

EKAFC

You could go with the Queen's Gambit Declined but I like to play the Slav. It gives you a lot of options whether you want to play safe or dangerous and I do like the Winawer Countergambit which despite not being the best opening to play, I get good results. Here is a link to my Semi-Slav Study where you will find resources like the Classical Slav, 1.d4 Sidelines, etc. If you understand the ideas, that's all you need to play the Slav and you don't need to know all the theory

maafernan

Hi! I think it is a great idea to learn an opening from books, where not only variations but insights and complete games are shown. In my opinion Watson's "Mastering the Chess Openings (2)" is a great source, despite the QGD takes just a 70-page section of the book.

Regarding the differences between the variations : Lasker's is seen as a simplifying attemp for equality while the Tartakower's is prone to dynamic play.

Good luck!

mate_in_n

Thank you very much for all advice, greatly appreciated!

RussBell

Good Chess Openings Books For Beginners and Beyond...

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/good-chess-openings-books-for-beginners-and-beyond

mate_in_n
RussBell wrote:

That's an impressive list of books. Can you recommend any for the Tartakower? Any particular reason Ntirlis's "Playing 1.d4 d5" was omitted?

RussBell

@timnf -

The following two books are excellent tutorial introductions to the QGD including the Tartakower and Lasker Defenses, among others.  I highly recommend both books for those wishing to become familiar with the fundamental principles of the 'standard' QGD variations.  For that purpose, one wouldn't go wrong with either book (in fact, I suggest getting both!)...

Starting Out: Queen's Gambit Declined by Neil McDonald...
https://www.amazon.com/Starting-Out-Queens-Gambit-Declined/dp/1857444264/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=queen%27s+gambit&qid=1572316130&s=books&sr=1-18

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627005627/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen93.pdf

Queen's Gambit Declined by Matthew Sadler...
https://www.amazon.com/Queens-Gambit-Declined-Matthew-Sadler/dp/1857442563/ref=sr_1_15?keywords=queen%27s+gambit&qid=1572316048&s=books&sr=1-15

The following, by John Cox, is a QGD repertoire book for Black which is built around the Tartakower Variation, with the Lasker Defense presented as an alternative.  I would recommend the book only for those wishing to focus on the Tartakower as their primary defense in the QGD (which also happens to be my preference in the QGD)...

Declining The Queen's Gambit by John Cox...

https://www.amazon.com/Declining-Queens-Gambit-Everyman-Chess/dp/1857446402/ref=sr_1_1?crid=YBH8967R78M3&keywords=Declining+The+Queen%27s+Gambit+by+John+Cox&qid=1664271543&s=books&sprefix=declining+the+queen%27s+gambit+by+john+cox%2Cstripbooks%2C268&sr=1-1

The following by book by Ntirlis is (quote, from the book's introduction) "a complete repertoire for Black after 1.d4 d5, the backbone of which is the Queen's Gambit Declined...which arises after 2.c4 e6."  The book presents a highly customized QGD repertoire, very specific in terms of the variations/lines presented, which is targeted primarily to experienced/advanced players, up to and including GM level.  It is not intended as an introductory level book covering the 'standard' QGD variations intended for those who have little to no prior experience with the QGD (such as those by McDonald and Sadler above).  I had not included it in my openings book list/article because at the time I wrote it, I did not own a copy of the book.  However, I do own it now.  It is well written, thorough in its (specific) coverage and can be recommended for its intended purpose and audience. (Note: it does not cover the Tartakower or Lasker variations)...

Playing 1.d4 d5: A Classical Repertoire by Nikolaos Ntirlis 

https://www.amazon.com/Playing-1-d4-d5-Classical-Repertoire/dp/1784830429/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1166S4PVBB30I&keywords=playing+1.d4+d5+a+classical+repertoire&qid=1664273462&s=books&sprefix=playing+1.d4+d5+a+classical+repertoire%2Cstripbooks%2C125&sr=1-1

 

 

mate_in_n

Thank you for your reviews RussBell!