Do the French, Caro-Kann, and Pirc fall into a special named category?

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Sqod

The French Defense, Caro-Kann Defense, and Pirc/Pribyl Defense seem to me to fall into a certain category of opening because they initially advance a central or semi-central pawn only one square, which creates a slippery, evasive, and usually asymmetrical game characterized by ...c5 and ...f5 pawn breaks. 

I've been thinking of them "semi-open defenses" but per Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-Open_Game) my term seems to be almost the same as "semi-open game," which is apparently something different since semi-open games include the Sicilian Defense and by implication the Scandinavian Defense, which are defenses I think of as open games.

 

Is there a term that includes primarily only those three defenses I mentioned? Could it be that I am thinking of them wrong, maybe because they can transpose to other openings with fully advanced central pawns?

 

1. e4 e6 {French Defense.}

1. e4 c6 {Caro-Kann Defense.}

1. e4 d6 {"Pribyl Defense."}

chesster3145

Closed Defences?

fieldsofforce

squod wrote:

Is there a term that includes primarily only those three defenses I mentioned? Could it be that I am thinking of them wrong, maybe because they can transpose to other openings with fully advanced central pawns?

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Not sure what you are after here.  If it is just terminology then closed defenses is good.  It has to do with  the  hypermodern  theory of chess.  Control the center with  the  power ofyour pawns and pieces, and with  this method you do not  create  targets for your opponent.

If it has to do with building  an opening  repertoire then a far better method is to  group  openings into  characteristic  pawn structures.  There are 6 basic  pawn structures  that result in 15 refined pawn structures with additional moves.  The ...c5 and ...f5 pawn breaks that you mentioned are an element of those characteristic pawn structures.

Sqod
chesster3145 wrote:

Closed Defences?

Per Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_Game) a closed defense means a variation stemming from 1. d4 d5, which of course doesn't necessarily include those three mentioned openings. Or is there a major difference between a closed game and a closed defense?

Sqod
fieldsofforce wrote:

Not sure what you are after here.  If it is just terminology then closed defenses is good.  It has to do with  the  hypermodern  theory of chess.  Control the center with  the  power ofyour pawns and pieces, and with  this method you do not  create  targets for your opponent.

I'm just looking for a good way to organize my thinking, not as a practical influence on my repertoire.

I'm not sure the hypermodern school is quite the answer because hypermodern openings include openings like...

1. e4 g6

1. e4 b6

1. e4 Nf6

1. e4 e5 2. Nc3

1. Nf3

...and none of those examples have the character I mean, unless maybe later they transpose into one of those three defenses. It could be I'm mistaken in believing that those three defenses share common characteristics that are definable, however.

You have good info and insight into pawn structures, though, which might be relevant.

Sqod
pfren wrote:

Open games are the ones which feature 1.e4 e5.

Everything else in reply to 1.e4 is a semi-open game, and any other move than 1.e4 is a closed game.

A major practical problem with those definitions is that all three defenses I mentioned are likely to transpose to the same position whether White opens with 1. e4 or 1. d4.

1. e4 e6 2. d4 =

1. d4 e6 2. e4

 

1. e4 c6 2. d4 =

1. d4 c6 2. e4

 

1. e4 d6 2. d4 =

1. d4 d6 2. e4

cats-not-knights
pfren wrote:

Your own terminology is rather problematic.

Open games are the ones which feature 1.e4 e5.

Everything else in reply to 1.e4 is a semi-open game, and any other move than 1.e4 is a closed game. You can send an application to FIDE to change this terminology, but I think it won't be considered seriously.

do d4 d5 is a closed games and the scilian is a semiopen game, interesting. so am I right to assume the names sicilian closed variation and ruy lopez closed variation are referred only to the specific lines and not to the game?

Sqod
cats-not-knights wrote:
do d4 d5 is a closed games and the scilian is a semiopen game, interesting. so am I right to assume the names sicilian closed variation and ruy lopez closed variation are referred only to the specific lines and not to the game?

I wondered the same thing. It could be another example of how a single term in chess has multiple meanings.

SocratesSidekick
Sqod wrote:
pfren wrote:

Open games are the ones which feature 1.e4 e5.

Everything else in reply to 1.e4 is a semi-open game, and any other move than 1.e4 is a closed game.

A major practical problem with those definitions is that all three defenses I mentioned are likely to transpose to the same position whether White opens with 1. e4 or 1. d4.

1. e4 e6 2. d4 =

1. d4 e6 2. e4

 

1. e4 c6 2. d4 =

1. d4 c6 2. e4

 

1. e4 d6 2. d4 =

1. d4 d6 2. e4

just gotta be flexible in your thinking. you know it's a transposition. no need to obsess over terminology.

chesster3145

I would put all playable defences to 1. e4 into three categories:

Classical - Contests d4 includes 1... e5 and 1... c5.

Classical - Contests d5 includes 1... e6, 1... c6, and 1... d5.

Hypermodern includes 1... g6, 1... b6, 1... Nf6, 1... Nc6, and 1... d6.

dpnorman
pfren wrote:

Your own terminology is rather problematic.

Open games are the ones which feature 1.e4 e5.

Everything else in reply to 1.e4 is a semi-open game, and any other move than 1.e4 is a closed game. You can send an application to FIDE to change this terminology, but I think it won't be considered seriously.

I have to say, it doesn't make a lot of sense that lines like the Chigorin Variation in the Closed Spanish are considered "Open Games". 

Sqod
Lasker1900 wrote:

The French and Caro-Kann are quite different from the Pirc, because Black intends to follow up with d5 and challenge immeditely in the center. And in the French, Black intends to keep a pawn on d5 for a long time. In the Pirc, Black usually allows White to occupy the center  and then tries to break it down

Good point. That suggests the Pirc is hypermodern, which I didn't realize. If all you say is true, then maybe I should revise the question to include only the French and Caro-Kann.

ArgoNavis

Let's call them semi-closed defences. I like the name.

Sqod

Since I posted this question, I've been using the following original terminology in my repertoire, if anybody's interested:

hamipid = half-advanced middle-ish pawn in defense.

center-hamipid-opening = hamipid using a center pawn.

side-hamipid-opening = hamipid using a side pawn.

middle-ish pawn = MP or BP.