Down a blind Russian ally…

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ErrantDeeds

So, here’s yet another pesky opening that deviates from the Opening Explorer within half a dozen moves, and leaves me clutching at straws thinking of an appropriate response. The Russian game. I’ve often faced 5…c5 against Black, which does not appear on the database. Can anyone suggest a good plan against it? Please note – I am not playing this in any of my current games, so this is not cheating! 


zankfrappa

How about Nd2 to take on that centralized knight without doubling white's pawns?

Tricklev

Maybe the pawn can just stay there? I really doubt that black would be able to take and keep that extra pawn anyhow, and he just isolated his d-pawn while you spent your time developing instead, maybe just Bc4 is a decent idea?

 

Heck, that's my first idea, let's see what someone more informed has to say.

Chess_Enigma

dxc5 seems good, but you would have to see if the resulting trade of queens gives white an advantage. Bd3 also seems good.

ErrantDeeds
Chess_Enigma wrote:

dxc5 seems good, but you would have to see if the resulting trade of queens gives white an advantage. Bd3 also seems good.


The problem is, the queen trade is not forced, as black can recapture with the Knight, and White's centre is non existent. 

trigs

i kind of like 6. Bc4 just keep developing and let black isolate his d pawn if he wants. it doesn't look like he'd be able to hold onto the pawn advantage if he captured. (granted i'm just glancing and not working out the lines).

in fact, it looks like you could get a big advantage in development in this line.

ErrantDeeds

All interesting points. It's an unusual situation, in that, typically, if an early move is not in the opening database, it's because there is a powerful tactical idea that refutes it. Here, the factors are more nebulous, like development. I like the ideas Bc4 and Nd2. 

trigs

i personally don't like 6. Nb2 since it pins in our bishop if black retreats his knight, and then we just have to move it again which doesn't help us develop quicker. i'd prefer 6. Be3 or 6. Bf4 first and then 7. Nb2 if that is your preference over 6. Bc4

again, that's just my personal preference.

PrawnEatsPrawn

I fancy dxc5.

TheOldReb

The problem with 5... c5 is that it gives white several choices that are all good for white. 6 dxc5 , d5, Bd3, Bb5+ ...... its a matter of personal preference which you choose. I like to develop rapidly and get castled soon in the openings, especially when there is an open central file as there is here. So, my own choice would be 6 Bd3 or 6 Bb5+ .

ErrantDeeds

The last game I played with this, I played d5, but, although I won the game, it was so riddled with blunders and mistakes that any advantage gleaned from the opening became irrelevant. Which I guess is part of a wider issue when the game is played at my level. 

trigs
Reb wrote:

The problem with 5... c5 is that it gives white several choices that are all good for white. 6 dxc5 , d5, Bd3, Bb5+ ...... its a matter of personal preference which you choose. I like to develop rapidly and get castled soon in the openings, especially when there is an open central file as there is here. So, my own choice would be 6 Bd3 or 6 Bb5+ .


really? 6. Bd3 or Bb5+ are better than 6. Bc4?

i understand Bd3, but i just prefer my bishop on c4 attacking the weak f7 square (especially considering black lost his e pawn).

and 6. Bb5+ seems easily defended against with 6...Bd7 7. Bxd7 Nxd7 and now white is behind or equal in development instead of having a (possibly) big advantage.

i am not a NM, however, so i guess i'm just missing something.

ErrantDeeds
trigs wrote:
Reb wrote:

The problem with 5... c5 is that it gives white several choices that are all good for white. 6 dxc5 , d5, Bd3, Bb5+ ...... its a matter of personal preference which you choose. I like to develop rapidly and get castled soon in the openings, especially when there is an open central file as there is here. So, my own choice would be 6 Bd3 or 6 Bb5+ .


really? 6. Bd3 or Bb5+ are better than 6. Bc4?

i understand Bd3, but i just prefer my bishop on c4 attacking the weak f7 square (especially considering black lost his e pawn).

and 6. Bb5+ seems easily defended against with 6...Bd7 7. Bxd7 Nxd7 and now white is behind or equal in development instead of having a (possibly) big advantage.

i am not a NM, however, so i guess i'm just missing something.


Black would have to recapture with either the Knight or Queen. Maybe d7 is a bad square for either? But I'm with you, I don't really know. 

ErrantDeeds

Out of interest, here is one of the book lines, with some of my inept thoughts...

trigs
Fiveofswords wrote:

If you play bc4 black could just correct his mistake by playing d5.


yes...yes he could...

ErrantDeeds
Fiveofswords wrote:

this is the petroff errant deeds, the main line. Its not horrible. White is not ahead more tempo than normal (because hes moved his knight three times)...The black knight on e5 is both vulnerable and dominant. It is the source of imbalance in this position. Yes, white could develop in a way that will pretty much force black to play nf6...but thats not exactly a tragedy... White will have to play c4 at some point to do this, and that move has some drawbacks of its own. Meanwhile, so long as the knight remains on e5, it can make its presence there useful in various ways.


Ah! Of course! The tempi are evened out by the Knight moves. Strange how that did not even occur to me. Oh yeah - I suck at chess. Thanks for your thoughts though. 

Chess_Enigma
ErrantDeeds wrote:
Chess_Enigma wrote:

dxc5 seems good, but you would have to see if the resulting trade of queens gives white an advantage. Bd3 also seems good.


The problem is, the queen trade is not forced, as black can recapture with the Knight, and White's centre is non existent. 


Taking with the knight saddles black with a nasty d pawn, which can be easly blockaded. c5 seems positionaly wrong since cxd is not currently a threat.

Artofterran

bishop d3