Dragon players, you have to try the Accelerated!

Accelerated Dragon players, play the Hyperaccelerated dragon! It stops rossolimo!

"... The Accelerated Dragon has never been quite as popular as the mainline Dragon, probably because Black reaches a slightly passive, if somewhat solid position in the Maroczy Bind lines. ..." - GM John Emms (2009)

Grandmaster and Open Sicilian expert Jesus de la Villa, in his well-recieved book Dismantling the Sicilian rated all the Sicilians with a star system of one to five. He gave the normal Dragon three stars, yet the Accelerated recieved four.

@Parnon, no offense man, but what actual experience do you have playing the Accelerated Dragon from either color? I looked at your recent games and just saw you playing 1.d4 and the French. It seems to me like you're just quoted random stats (which the 365chess database did not confirm). At first you wrote something about Bg5 and when it was pointed out that wasn't even the main line it became the Nc2 move, you just can't make up your mind can you? I guess you'll have to consult the database again.

The Maroczy Bind isn't to every White players taste to begin with, this is why most White players play 5.Nc3. When White plays the Maroczy Bind they're saying they're ok with a draw. This is not an opening people who really want to win are going to play. Maroczy Bind players are trying to get what they think is a risk-free edge at the cost of a very high drawing margin. I'd wager the stats get tremendously worse for White if you took out all the GM games. As GM NIgel Davies said, it's really only "Kramnik and Co." that can use the Maroczy Bind to generate winning chances.

Also GM Roman Dzindsichashvili made a very good point, he said playing against the Maroczy Bind as Black is like the coming of Spring. When Black breaks out of the Bind, it's like Spring and they often can get advantages like control of the open c-file, better control of the dark-squares, and good outposts for their pieces.

Another great thing about the Maroczy Bind is that all Black has to know is the basic ideas, there's not much theory. Not like the normal Dragon, of which the Chinese Dragon is just one of many variations. I actually read on these forums that the Chinese Dragon wasn't holding up well theoretically, I believe it was a comment of Pfren's which said that. But it hardly matters, since you can only play the Chinese Dragon against the Yugoslav Attack with 9.Bc4 you're not likely to actually get it on the board anyway.

I like the Accelerated Dragon but in order to play it black has to put up with a host of anti Sicilians white will throw at you that prevent the Accelerated Dragon and that I don't like.  

Why are you giving away all our secrets?  You could be thrown out of the Accelerated Dragon Players Guild.

In the Accelerated Dragon Maroczy Bind, black is basically playing for a draw at high level. At master or GM level, no one wins with black unless white blunders. I think that's enough to deter most players.

I used to frequently play 1. e4, but switched to 1. d4 after I got sick of dealing with Najdorfs, Scheveningens, and the Berlin/Schliemann.  Always loved playing against the Accelerated, though...  I can't argue about the Chinese Dragon too much, as I don't know all the theory on it and it seems to change every few months... It's a lot of fun though, and as far as I know it's sound and is being used at the highest level.

No, I have never changed my position.  In my opinion (and yes, I do like to use Mega DB statistics to back me up) Bg5 is a more aggressive move than Be2, and it's only used slightly less than Be2 anyway even though Be2 is the most common line.  Also, I trust Mega DB much more than 365 chess - not only are the games better quality in Mega, they are frequently annotated and there are about twice as many games.  Unfortunately Mega is not free, but you get what you pay for and the statistics and games from Mega are higher quality than the ones from 365chess.  I prefer to use statistics rather than rhetoric on threads, as I'm a random name and there's no way to verify my statements without evidence...  I don't see why you object to my using databases and data to support my points.  

I support Nc2 as another line if black plays d6 instead of the direct Nxd4.  I think that both lines are good, but are possible in different situations and can't be played from the same position.  If you avoid one, you run into the other - can support both, not a question of making up my mind.  

On another point, the Yugoslav is a main line of the Dragon, which makes the Chinese a very likely possibility.  0-0-0 before Bc4 is playable, too, but Yugoslav is also a common line and opportunities to play the Chinese present themselves frequently. 

The only one of your points that I will concede is that I have very little experience playing the Dragon with black - most of my experience with it is from the white perspective.  

Many people play the Chinese to avoid 10...Rc8 11 Bb3 Ne5 12 Kb1! because now THAT is a variation Black is in trouble in. The Chinese Dragon is theoretically sound and actually scoring quite well for Black. In my livebook it gives a 53% score, better than the Soltis for example. For the rest I agree with Parnon. Dolphin can you try and find that comment you believe was Pfrens? Not that I don't believe it exists but I'm curious. In a year of Chinese Dragon study I never encountered something that forced a clear/obvious advantage for White. 

I agree with Pfren, this is what I do. I prefer the Chinese Dragon over the Topalov in case of 10 0-0-0 but play Topalov when White chooses 10 Bb3 

@OP. How often when you play the accelerated do you face the Maroczy ? % ?

I play the Maroczy via a 1c4 move order that can transpose. From an English opening point of view I'm happier than if black plays a symmetrical English with an e6 thrown in.

I always think that 1e4 players are always reluctant to move their c pawn forward two squares - I always used to be -(IMHO that's why 1e4 g6 players get away with murder)  and on this basis the Accelerated Dragon may be good against 1e4 players who won't or can't nurse a spatial edge to victory and so hope to transpose to "normal" open Sicilian play.

@Ziggy I face the Maroczy perhaps 15%-20% of the time. I encounter people who try the Yugoslav Attack in different ways just as often as people who play the Maroczy. It's very surprising how many people don't really know theory, even higher ranked players who you'd expect would know it. Even Peter Svidler messed up bad in the opening against the Accelerated and lost a pawn, although that was a blitz game. (You can find that game on the Chess24 youtube channel in one of Svidler's Banter Blitz videos)

@Pfren Let me elucidate the points once more of switching from the normal Dragon to the Accelerated.

1. A lot more people than you'd expect don't really know theory so by playing the Accelerated you're often playing against the Yugoslav Attack being a full tempi up from the normal Dragon. Why would someone play the normal Dragon when they can just be a tempi up by playing the Accelerated? Naturally I expect that my opponents will play well and know not to try the Yugoslav Attack against it. The point is that it's weeding out the White players who don't know theory but are just going to hack attack against you. That's what I found annoying about the regular Dragon, I could tell many of my opponents didn't know theory but with the auto-pilot hack attack plan they didn't need to, the onus was on Black to need to. With the Accelerated Dragon White needs to know the theory just as much as Black and if they don't they get instantly exposed.

2. The Maroczy Bind doesn't require an intense memorization of moves, instead knowing the ideas is more important. When I was playing the normal Dragon I would look at other peoples games and see that it was the same game I'd played. Where's the creativity? Do you think memorizing lines out to move 30 is a healthy thing for people trying to improve at chess to do?

3. There are active positions in the Accelerated depending on what White plays, the Maroczy Bind isn't the mainline. And even if it was I wouldn't mind because it's fun playing against it, as Roman Dzindzichashvili said, when you break out of the bind it's like Spring, and by playing against the Maroczy Bind you get to herald in Spring.

4. The transition from normal Dragon to Accelerated Dragon is very easy as many of the typical patterns/motifs remain the same. It's not even like switching openings so the switch makes sense for people who play the Dragon but aren't happy with the positions they get out of the Yugoslav Attack, which I wasn't. In the normal Dragon I saw what the positions were at the end of these 30 plus move variations and they weren't to my satisfaction. It's like "I'm putting all the study time and memorization in for this?!" The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, and apparently GM de la Villa agrees because in his book the normal Dragon got three stars while the Accelerated got four.

@Parnon, Use of stats is one of the main components of rhetoric. What do the stats mean, whatever database you use says different than the one I look at which has games from 2015 in it. But what info do we have on any stats, what were the ratings of the players, etc? I don't care about stats. Some individual players score very well in certain openings because it fits their style and that's how I feel about the Maroczy Bind because I enjoy the positions. You see it as being condemned, I see it as being a heralder of Spring.

As for the Chinese Dragon being likely to appear on the board LOL. Try playing the Sicilian Dragon and see how often you can get that. First the Open Sicilian itself is unlikly to appear on the board, even a GM like Sveshnikov says he gets the Open Sicilian in less than half his games as Black playing 1...c5. But what if the uncommon happens, you get an Open Sicilian and play the Dragon, well now White can use the Classical set-up, the g3 set up, the Levenfish, etc. Many players don't want to get into a  theoretical debate with the Yugoslav Attack (I'm talking about normal chess here, I can't speak for correspondence chess where people know they have books to rely on). But let's say you've actually got an Open Sicilian (miracle of miracles!) and now White plays the Yugoslav Attack. The move I always saw most often was 9.0-0-0 There's also 9.g4 and other various sidelines on move 9. So you're basically studying a variation of a variation that starts on move 9, which is itself a variation of the Open Sicilian against the Dragon.

But here's another problem with the normal Dragon when you play even normal time control games online. In several of my games, after I played g6 and signaled the normal Dragon, there would be a long pause from my opponent. After the pause ended they would quickly bust out 20 moves of Yugoslav Attack theory. One of my oppoennts even admitted to me once he was using an opening explorer and said he didn't know it was considered cheating. But can't people use opening explorers no matter which opening you play? Yes, but in the normal Dragon this matters a lot more because it's basically a contest to see who knows the most theory since it's such a sharp position.

@Gilasaurus I want to let you know that I'm not meaning to bash the normal Dragon, it just was an opening not to my taste. I believe if you really enjoy studying and researching opening theory as well as have the temperment for the positions then the normal Dragon may be perfect. I wasn't meaning to insult the opening because I know it's a favorite of yours. However, I will say that every normal Dragon player should at least play the Accelerated enough to experience what a Yugoslav Attack is like for Black being a tempi up. It's not going to happen every game, but believe me it will happen, and after experiencing what the extra-tempi Yugoslav is like it's kind of hard to go back and be content with the regular Yugoslav.

Yes, I found it. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/gm-negis-1e4-book-appropriate-for-class-players?page=2

By the way Gilasaurus be sure to read the last paragraph of my comment above addressed to you because I really wasn't meaning to insult or bash the normal Dragon which I know is one of your favorite openings.

O I know you're just looking for a respectful discussion/exchanging thoughts, I didn't take offence or anything.

A new book will be published on all Anti-Sicilians by Kotronias next month, with special advice for 2...Nc6 2...d6 and 2...e6 players.

You do have some good points though, the Dragon indeed is a theory battle. I like studying the theory a lot and I also got a great memory plus feel for the positions. This is a game I played very recently in the Dragon on this website, 3 days per move: http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=121757796

With both my opponent and myself playing theory it was very hard for me to actually get a realistic chance of winning the game. I am sure that if we played OTB I'd have had a better chance, with all respect to my opponent of course.

Most of my OTB opponents play 6. Be2 and that gives Black easy play. A reason for me not to play the Accelerated is because of 3. Bb5 Rossolimo. That alone is enough for me. 

@Gilasaurus Cool game against a quality opponent, and I agree with you if that was OTB you'd likely have won. And I guess the normal Dragon is only a theory battle if White chooses it to be by going with the Yugoslav instead of the other options.

I love playing the Rossolimo. I play it from the White side as well, and I like facing it as Black too. Here's the funny thing since earlier in this thread there was a discussion about stats, when I was first deciding what to do against the Rossolimo I went with 3...e6 primarily because I saw it was scoring better statistically than the mainline which is 3...g6. However now I've switched to playing 3...g6 and I like it better and seem to have slightly more success with it and find it easier. Stats can be so misleading. I basically just follow the recipe Daniel King laid out in his Chessbase anti-Sicilian repertoire DVD. Also while at first 3...g6 seems to score worse if you follow it farther down the line all of a sudden Black is doing better statswise, that shows how stats can be misleading. When I play it as White I'm seeing mostly 3...e6, hardly ever 3...g6 despite it being the mainline. I guess my opponents have also looked at the stats to make their decision.

The Rossolimo can be a scary opening to face for the first several times you see it because White gets his pieces out fast, castles, while Black's kingside stays undeveloped. If you're unfamiliar with it you can get a really bad position quickly, but once you learn the general theory for only the first eight or nine moves or so and the basic strategy/positional objectives it's not scary at all and you can get easy equality.Check out Daniel King's recipe and you may start to like the Rossolimo as Black too.

@Rootintootin, thanks for showing that. I'll send you a friend request.

When I still played e4 as White I actually played Rossolimo myself. I got inspired by the Fischer-Spassky game in 1992 where Fischer plays the pawn sacrifice b4. Most people however responded with e6 and Nge7 and I just found it way too positional. I can't imagine I'd like it from Black either.

Here's another Dragon game that finished yesterday 3 days per move: http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=118460742 it's a very exciting game with one of the sharpest lines in the entire Dragon, and near the end I actually missed a few chances to get a decent advantage (I engine checked it after the game and some stuff was really hard to find though) and when I knew I would win the other game versus that opponent I just took a draw. 

This is the "accelerated" Gurgenidze. Not the original.

Two very playable openings, the accelerated being more solid, and often used as a drawing weapon by GMs like Khalifman.

Tried it, didn't like the c4 lines... the end