Dutch, Classical variation (A96). What are your experiences?

I recently adopted this opening against White's opening move 1. d4. I hope to show some games here, gone bad or good, and also hope others will share their games. To provide eachother with thoughts, ideas and suggestions on this what I consider a nice opening.

I got Simon Williams books and also purchased his online course on Chessable. Still learning and currently playing 4 games. One transposing from the Reti, another from the Englsih, and 2 direct ones.

By the way, I play correspondence chess. Hope others here will contribute (this thread is not meant to discuss other openings, or other opinions on how it is not a great opening... do that somewhere else )

You need to expand beyond that. The Classical by itself is not a good idea.

I speak as a Stonewall player with the same basic rule. Both the Classical AND the Stonewall should be a last resort, not a primary weapon.

1.d4 e6 (1...f5 you have to put up with 2.Bg5, 2.Nc3, the Staunton Gambit, and the Poisoned-Spike Gambit, here you have to deal with the French, pick your poison) 2.c4 f5 and now your 3rd move will be 3...Nf6, but don't just assume a Classical.

Both the Classical and the Stonewall should be played as a "last resort" when White fianchettos the Kings Bishop, beating you to the diagonal.

So after say, 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 or 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g3, then yes, Classical Dutch players should play 4...Be7 or 4...d6 and Stonewall players should be playing 4...d5

But this should not be Black's primary goal. After e6, f5, and Nf6, controlling the light squares, Black's main goal is control e4. Therefore:

1) If White commits his Knights such that they can no longer guard each other, like 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 (Ne2 no longer possible), then pin the Knight in Nimzo-Indian Fashion, the extra move f5 is good for Black here! 4...Bb4!!

2) If White has not committed to both c3 and f3 with the knights, like 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 or the London System (1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 f5 3.e3 Nf6 4.Nf3), Black should NOT play a Classical or Stonewall. Black should take the Diagonal that White did not claim and play 4...b6! And 5...Bb7!

You need to make sure you study both of these lines, and only play the Classical when White has played g3 on move 4 or earlier!

Hi @ThillerFan, thanks for you reply.

You are right in your comnents. It depends how White manoeuvres in the first few moves. I also have some studies on the Stonewall, and above all have learned that the Dutch Classical can also evolve from choices made, after Black answers 1. .. e6. I have the French defense in my main repertoire (against 1. e4).

Much to learn ofcourse, for some one, as you know, just playing chess again after 30 years.

Hello

Suppose you do play the Dutch defense (classical variation), because it also limits your repertoire at the moment and keep it within what you know, or think to know , than would it be at least good idea to use against the English and Réti openings? It does limit all the stuff you need to learn, when starting up again, instead of also figuring out on how to master these openings also in their own right.

I kind of neglected my own topic, so here is a game I recently lost. I will show you the moves that matter, and skip the other moves that were no longer important. My opponent opened with 1. c4, the English opening.

I should have played the move with Black Pxc4 a move earlier, and no problems would have occured with the pesky White pawn located on d6....

Don't play it against a london

Well, do explain why all of a sudden the London would be better?!

My experience with the Classical (and other) Dutch variations is why I tossed it all and went to the QGD. I played it for over 20 years but found the positions difficult at best with poor leverage against the center.

queenside castle and black has nothing to attack. The correct moves for black are too unlogical. Natural d6 is a blunder

hello Erwin, Idk much about the Dutch, except that f5 is a major pawn break at blacks disposal in a majority of d4 games. That said, I have recently found myself in a reverse Dutch against an expert level player. He played 1.f4. I played d5 not knowing anything more than that. But apparently, there's another option, the Froms gambit.

Lets just say, this thread is not immediately meant as comments on how the Dutch could be refuted, or people liking other openings, and presenting these here. Of course, you need to be aware of these.

Instead, I started this thread to focus mainly on your experiences with the Classical Dutch!

I play the dutch against the queen's gambit. I recommend you to

a) Delay it(a great reason to learn french defence, the best opening in all of chess)

Classical is too dangerous against the london cuz

1) You don't get your bishop pin

2) Their position is very solid, your is not

3) They can literally run away from your attack and start a battle where if you win, you get nothing(maybe a passed pawn); if you lose, you get checkmated

I love the Dutch. I play both the classical (inspired of Larsen and Williams) and the Stonewall with both Be7 (inspired by Jens Kristiansen) and Bd6 (inspired by Kramnik and Aagaard). And an early b6 if White omit g3.

And I play them with 1...f5 not 1...e6. No need to be afraid of Bg5, Nc3 or e4 (but I do play the Staunton with White as I know it so well) and allow a French.

@lassus_dinnao.... Do you have some game annotated that you can present here, with your games and ideas of the London system against the (classical) Dutch?

I believe there are also good reasons to play the Hopton attack against the Dutch, which could lead to some London Jabova moves?

I think it is therefore necessary for a Dutch player to know the French Defense as well, as a White player opening with 1. d4 will probably dislike 1. .. e6. It also avoids a lot of pesky anti-Dutch variations with the London, any types of gambits, etc., etc.

There are no ideas. London player just plays Qc2, OOO and starts to h4 g4 you. Yes, i think playing 1.f5 is a death wish. Either start with e6 if classical or stonewall, or start with g6 if leningrad. You don't need to know french defence tho. Just enter the small center defence and continue with the hippo.

Here is the first correspondence game I won with the Classical Dutch, eventhough White started with 1. c4 and my engine called this an English closed variation with f5.

In another recent game from the same rating tournament of the Dutch correspondence chess bond, the NBC, I managed to get a draw with the Classical Dutch against the Réti with 1. Nf3. I had to be careful because of the open c and d files, but managed to get my pawns on f5 and e5. We agreed upon a draw, because if it would have been played further both sides would have ended up with their Kings, pawns probably both on the g and h files and both in posession of a rook. Perhaps other moves were available, that is for you to comment