Not necessarily, but white pretty much always has an edge in the dutch defense. The point of the dutch is to complicate things and personally I would be happy to challenge white to prove the compensation or else he isn't really better.
Dutch Defence - Stonewall Variation
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446919 wrote:
Elubas wrote:
Not necessarily, but white pretty much always has an edge in the dutch defense. The point of the dutch is to complicate things and personally I would be happy to challenge white to prove the compensation or else he isn't really better.
White is almost always better in every mainline opening provided s/he knows what to do. If your clueless on what to do your get slaughtered whether you are playing white are playing black
Not true. Most openings lead to eventual equality, particularly the solid ones like ...e5. And with the solid openings you won't get "slaughtered" by not knowing a specific move unless you're playing a sharp opening.
446919 wrote:
Elubas wrote:
446919 wrote:
Elubas wrote:
Not necessarily, but white pretty much always has an edge in the dutch defense. The point of the dutch is to complicate things and personally I would be happy to challenge white to prove the compensation or else he isn't really better.
White is almost always better in every mainline opening provided s/he knows what to do. If your clueless on what to do your get slaughtered whether you are playing white are playing black
Not true. Most openings lead to eventual equality, particularly the solid ones like ...e5. And with the solid openings you won't get "slaughtered" by not knowing a specific move unless you're playing a sharp opening.
Well if you don't know what your doing in the moscow variation of the semislav then you are not surviving long...(and people say the semi-slav has no sharp variation)
Yes I know that but you know black doesn't have to go into those lines at all. And I think you're studying openings even more than I am which I think is too much. Particularly the memorized moves. You seem to memorize all these variations and go for an opening knockout. I study them to be prepared but mostly to improve my strategy by looking at the positional ideas. In the winawer with 7 f4, you did something that was common in pretty much any winawer without f4! But that ...c4 and ...f5 idea was incorrect in that one instance because you used the same ideas as the ones you probably use in lines such as 7 Nf3.
10 diagrams of that as your response to 7 f4 just made me assume. And there is always the main line slav (4...dxc4) and the QGA (2...dxc4) that can have similar play to the meran variation which isn't terribly sharp.
I'm just going by memory in the "french debate" topic.
446919 wrote:
and the dxc4 slav gives black no real winning chances its too solid...
Maybe at GM level. Have you even played it or did a GM tell you? Even in solid openings, there aren't many draws till you get up high when any mistake they make is very small usually. And in the IQP positions black has plenty of chances as long as he makes it to the endgame. It must be just your opinion.
d5 can not necessarily be played if black puts a knight there.
Well the point was whether it was drawish or not. At the highest level, probably, that's why the best play sharp stuff because any mistake is more punished. At amateur level, absolutely not! A good positional player from either side could win quite convincingly against the other. It's clearly not a must win type of opening, but at the amateur level no matter what opening is played draws aren't very common. You keep telling me ideas for white... but they can be met by effective strategies for black for one thing because d5 is easy for black to control. The game is balanced and the better player will probably win though black can't always get a winning endgame even if he outplays white.
446919 wrote:
well the petroff with qe2 still ends up as a draw usually if no major blunders
Ok, the petroff is an exception in case both players really want the draw. If there is no imbalance, than it's not a good winning opening. The QGA and similar lines of the queen's gambit however, do have them it just takes a strong mind sometimes to make use of them.
thanks for all the feed back guys!
Hey I don't know how this developed into a discussion about the Lisitin gambit, but I will give you my thoughts as I actually play the Dutch Defense.
There are two main systems that Dutch players use, The Leningrad System and the Stonewall system. I would recommend the Leningrad system as it is sharper and more imbalanced. Usually if white is a strong player, they dont' have much trouble with the stonewall system, of course, sometimes the stonewall system if forced. You can check out one of my OTB Dutch games I commented.
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/game-analysis/the-dutch-defense-again-comments-suggestions-questions
The Lisitin is no threat by the way.... so long as you know how to defend against it... it doesn't scare a dutch player at all. But, I think the correct way to play it is below.
Beware the lisitin gambit!
That's the Lisitsin gambit deferred BTW. The true Lisitsin gambit is an immediate 2.e4. To reach the deferred you're relying on B playing 2...Nf6 instead of 2...d6 which spoils W's fun.
playing d3 before e4 is the better way to reach the position if immediatly e5 then fe ng5 nf6 d3 d5!
He just said black is not going to play ...nf6 on 3 d3.