e4, e5, C4?!

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So, (Wesley) I was wondering what this opening is, is it good, bad, horrible. What are your thoughts community? 

Martin_Stahl

https://www.chess.com/openings/C20_English_Opening_The_Whale

 

There are 50 games (or maybe 100 .... the link says that but the Explorer only shows 50) with that opening in the Opening DB here.

Rumo75

Horrible.

flagged-again

...Bc5 is the right idea, but in the line given black plays it at the wrong time. 2.c4 is bad because in e4 e5 openings the natural development squares for the Bf1 are c4 and b5, both of which are blocked by the Pc4. 2.c4 also creates a hole at d4, which black can capitalize on with 2...Bc5 or 3...Bc5. The problem with 4...Bc5 is that white has the "fork trick" 5.Nxe5 Nxe5 6.d4, which lets white back into the game.

GoldenExxperience

i play it some ppl say its horrible but i like it its whale variantion

MyNameIsNotBuddy

I used to play this, but I never use it now, it's not that good. 

MyNameIsNotBuddy

 

darkunorthodox88

its more ugly than outright bad. 

the main problem with this (as opposed to the stonewall) is that black can eventually force d5, because black already begins with the queen's support. 

another issue is that playing it like a stonewall would require f3 which is more positionally suspect than c3 in the stonewall. 

Best play by white may  end up looking like a botvinnik system, but black may not be so kind to let you get that formation without a toll.

this b3 stuff with e4-c4 however looks real suspect. White is playing for a closed position, so the fianchetto is not really an improvement over d3, furthermore, your bad bishop which is the one that needs the tempi spent on it, just goes to the mediocre e2 square. Also, unlike g3 which has the secondary function of supporting the main source of eventual counterplay in f4, b3 doesnt support any key pawn thrust as c4 was already prematurely played and no big breakthrough is found on the queenside here.

Lud6969
Rumo75 wrote:

Horrible.

Yea opening seems soo bad  to play 

sooki2011

i plyed e4 e5 c4 c5?

 

zioggino

and my favorite opening, it moves the pawn to c4 because if it moved after the knight it would occupy c3, it allows you to put solid pawns by taking up space on the board and above all pass the pawn before the knight, you have to learn to use it because it allows the opponent to develop a bishop and a knight, Anyone who dismisses it completely has probably never even played it lol

Thepasswordis1234

its called the King's Pawn Opening: Whale Varation

Lent_Barsen

I think "horrible" is probably an overstatement.

I'm not recommending the line, but this old Kamran Shirazi game maybe shows how it can be reasonably played: