English Defence 1.d4/c4 e6 2. d4/c4 b6 followed by Bb7

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ArthurCake

Hi 

Anyone got any experience of the English Defence you would like to share.

Is it any good?

Is it complex/difficult to play? Is it tactical or strategic? Or both?

Would you recomend someone to take it up?

And which books would you suggest to use?

If you have never played the English Defence as black but have faced it as white then what was your experence?

All views gratefully recieved. 

ThrillerFan

It can be extremely difficult and risky to play.

The one line White should avoid is 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 3.e4 Bb7 4.Nc3 Bb4. White gets into a lot if tactical issues.

For 1.d4 players, I suggest either 2.e4 against 1...e6 or else if 2.c4 b6 White should refrain from Nc3 and play 3.e4 Bb7 4.Bd3 or even better, 3.a3, which is part of the reason I quit the English Defense. I actually think after 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 3.a3, Black is best off playing 3...c5 and going in the direction of an English Open, Hedgehog Variation.

I always played 2.e4 and go into a French Defense, or if 2...b6 anyway, then No c4 and you are in Owen's Defense, which is weaker than the English Defense.

darkunorthodox88

thriller is 100% wrong about the owens. Owen's is the defense of the GODS.
but he is right that some of the most annoying lines involve early a3 where you can transpose to the petrosian-kasparov line of the QID, go for a hedgehog or what is most in the flavor of the opening play early f5 . But f5 is surprisingly difficult to play , especially after an early d4-d5. Play is obstuse and you always worried about either a weak e6 square or were to put your queen knight, since b4, is always an option by white.

Ethan_Brollier

Can’t say personally as I doubt I’ve ever touched it as either color, transposing either to the French, Owen’s, or QID as White, and I don’t fianchetto my LSB in non-e4 games as a general rule. However, I looked into it, and came to the same conclusion as my two betters above. 3. a3 looks ROUGH for Black to deal with, and honestly I doubt Black has a better option than to completely abandon the English and flee to the somewhat more solid lands of the QID at that point.

darkunorthodox88
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

Can’t say personally as I doubt I’ve ever touched it as either color, transposing either to the French, Owen’s, or QID as White, and I don’t fianchetto my LSB in non-e4 games as a general rule. However, I looked into it, and came to the same conclusion as my two betters above. 3. a3 looks ROUGH for Black to deal with, and honestly I doubt Black has a better option than to completely abandon the English and flee to the somewhat more solid lands of the QID at that point.

to be fair, if the critical line to your defense in question requires you to transpose to a line of QID, your problems arent big in the grand scheme of things lol. 
the english defense is an amazing defense, the winning percentages for black in many lines are outright crazy high. Its aesthetically beautiful in a chaotic grotesque way, pretty much violating every opening principle (hypermodern, early queen sorties, moving pieces twice in the opening, developing bishops before knights etc) yet the evals are never anything ridiculous (They are some lines which have been busted by computers, but alternatives have been found)

Yigor
ThrillerFan wrote:

It can be extremely difficult and risky to play.

The one line White should avoid is 1.d4 e6 2.c4 b6 3.e4 Bb7 4.Nc3 Bb4. White gets into a lot if tactical issues.

U exaggerate, as usual. peshka

superczarnyhetman

L

ArthurCake

If the worst is transposing to the QID then the English Defence can't be that bad and darkunorthodox88's view is correct. I believe there are also transpositions to the Dutch and some very Nimzo style play. Following ThrillerFan's comments I will look at white playing an early a3.

Another benefit of the system is you can play it not just against 1 d4 but also 1 c4 and 1 Nf3 thereby cutting down theory.

I think I will take it up - thanks for all your comments, all very helpful.