Exotic first moves to avoid any opening preparation

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Grumly06

I wanted to list some moves that you can use with White to avoid the theoretical battle and just start playing Chess. In this video, I discuss about 1. f4, 1. Nc3 and 1. b4

After this, it is likely that both you and your opponent are in unknown territory as soon as move 2.

Sometimes you just want to get a decent position and play from there happy.png

ThrillerFan

Problem with that theory is some of us are prepared to face 1.f4.  I actually have 2 lines that I play against it, depending on mood and situation.

 

1...e5, the From's Gambit, against which I play 4...Nf6 or if White plays the King's Gambit, then 2...exd4 and 3...d5.

 

1...Nf6 which is fine for Black in reversed Classical Dutch lines, and if White tries to go reverse Leningrad, it ends up being a direct transposition to the Closed Sicilian, Spassky's Variation (the lines with 6.f4).

 

So looking for unprepared openings?  Look again!

Grumly06

I agree with you that 1.f4 has theory indeed.

Maybe you will agree with me that on the other hand, 1. Nc3 and 1. b4 are doing a fine job of sidestepping any opening preparation happy.png

ThrillerFan
Grumly06 wrote:

I agree with you that 1.f4 has theory indeed.

Maybe you will agree with me that on the other hand, 1. Nc3 and 1. b4 are doing a fine job of sidestepping any opening preparation

Nope, they fail to side step as well.

Actually, I have played 1.b4 roughly 200 to 250 times in my over 2700 game over the board career.  As Black, best is 1.b4 e5! 2.Bb2 Bxb4 3.Bxe5 Nf6 4.c4 O-O 5.Nf3 Re8 6.e3 d5 7.cxd5 (White should flick in 7.a3 Ba5 to make the issue more managable) Nxd5 8.Be2 (8.Bb2 Nf4!) Rxe5! 9.Nxe5 Qf6 advantage Black.  With 7.a3 Ba5 8.cxd5 Nxd5 9.Be2 Rxe5 10.Nxe5 Qf6 11.Nc4 Qxa1 12.Nxa5 with equality.

 

Against 1.Nc3, the trick is do not play 1...e5 or 1...f5.  The former leads to a bad position after 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 with an improved scotch type structure with g3 and Bg2 coming instead of e4 and Knight tricks prevail, especially attacks on c7.  The latter White should play 2.e4.  The best reply by Black is 1...d5 and head into a Veresov via 2.d4 Nf6 or the Van Geet via 2.e4 d4 3.Nce2 e5 4.Ng3 Be6, not allowing Bc4.  Played this as White for about a year and a half in 2004 and 2005.  It is not good for White if Black knows what he is doing.

SeniorPatzer

Bobby Talparov:  "What you are doing is not sidestepping preparation, but rather gambling that your opponent doesn't have an approach to unusual lines."

 

At the lower levels of Club play, probably not a bad gamble.  Will probably even catch some higher rated players too.  

Firethorn15

1.Nc3 just results in transpositional possibilities galore:


The problem is that White cannot hold back e4 indefinitely without getting a passive position.

 

Skordato

Andersens' 1. a3 may be a choice although there are variations on that one too of course,

  • 1.a3 g6 2.g4 (Andersspike)
  • 1.a3 e5 2.h3 d5 (Creepy Crawly Formation)
  • 1.a3 a5 2.b4 (Polish Gambit)

and there are many possible transpositions to other known lines such as the Sicilian etc.

 

SeniorPatzer

Bobby Talparov:  "White hasn't occupied the center, so I claim it myself "

 

I loved this note in your game against the Original Thinker, lol.

 

Of course, there's probably some hypermodern aficionado who can defeat the occupied center by sniping away at it, but I agree with you.

nighteyes1234

Exotic? Not for most people....you are talking about picking up an opening out of a garbage heap.

I might be able to survive with black's worst reply.... 1 f4 g5 2 fxg5, which has an eval of +.55

 

 

 

Greatest_hokage1998

Canadian Knights and Queen over King.

FredPhillips
Play na3 first move then
Colin20G

Play whatever you like but at your own risk ! example with a nice anti d4 novelty (2 minutes 1 second increment game)

 

HorribleTomato
Grumly06 wrote:

I wanted to list some moves that you can use with White to avoid the theoretical battle and just start playing Chess. In this video, I discuss about 1. f4, 1. Nc3 and 1. b4

 

 

After this, it is likely that both you and your opponent are in unknown territory as soon as move 2.

Sometimes you just want to get a decent position and play from there

HAHAHAHAHA

Any good player can play against f4, b4, and Nc3 from the gut.

darkunorthodox88

you will be alright, but if you think you are gonna coast with these openings, you are mistaken, you might not have to learn 20+ moves of theory for each, but you will certaintly need to know them well. they are the kind of openings that if black knows what he is doing , white will need to know how not to end up worse in some critical concrete lines.

 

nighteyes is a scrub, ignore him, bobbytolpalov is another scrub too. no you are not gonna get "Crushed" if you play a move that scores 0.1 or 0.00, thats just pure ignorance. thrillerfan is NOT a scrub and despite often being a little opiniated is a good player and is mostly correct in his assessment. I will like to add though that in his analysis of the 1.b4 e5 line, my antidote is to play be2 instead of cxd5 right away, the purpose being, that xcd5 gives black the extra tempo to pull off qf6, if you play be2 first, you have enough time to 0-0 and play d4 without the bishop pinning you making the rook sac dubious.

 

they are all good openings that will bring fresh positions to your game. (for 1.nc3 you can force independent lines very often, although be open minded about playing closed sicilian, veserov, vienna gambit,and g3 viennas ,as the positions are good and still somewhat unusual). you will prob need to decide how to play vs 1.nc3 nf6 via a preferred transposition.

darkunorthodox88
BobbyTalparov wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

..., bobbytolpalov is another scrub too. no you are not gonna get "Crushed" if you play a move that scores 0.1 or 0.00, thats just pure ignorance. thrillerfan is NOT a scrub and despite often being a little opiniated is a good player and is mostly correct in his assessment. 

Yep, I'm a scrub (takes one to know one, I guess) ... yet, you fail to refute anything I said, and even go on to praise similar analysis of someone else.

what "analysis"? you mean therapy? 

HorribleTomato
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

you will be alright, but if you think you are gonna coast with these openings, you are mistaken, you might not have to learn 20+ moves of theory for each, but you will certaintly need to know them well. they are the kind of openings that if black knows what he is doing , white will need to know how not to end up worse in some critical concrete lines.

 

nighteyes is a scrub, ignore him, bobbytolpalov is another scrub too. no you are not gonna get "Crushed" if you play a move that scores 0.1 or 0.00, thats just pure ignorance. thrillerfan is NOT a scrub and despite often being a little opiniated is a good player and is mostly correct in his assessment. I will like to add though that in his analysis of the 1.b4 e5 line, my antidote is to play be2 instead of cxd5 right away, the purpose being, that xcd5 gives black the extra tempo to pull off qf6, if you play be2 first, you have enough time to 0-0 and play d4 without the bishop pinning you making the rook sac dubious.

 

they are all good openings that will bring fresh positions to your game. (for 1.nc3 you can force independent lines very often, although be open minded about playing closed sicilian, veserov, vienna gambit,and g3 viennas ,as the positions are good and still somewhat unusual). you will prob need to decide how to play vs 1.nc3 nf6 via a preferred transposition.

I'm sorry.

What I mean is- it doesn't quite... avoid preparation.

I play a -0.17 Sicilian line (french variation) that NO MASTER has ever played. That's what I call PREP!

NichtGut

This is not yugioh, stop talkign about centipawn computer scores.

darkunorthodox88
HorribleTomato wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:

you will be alright, but if you think you are gonna coast with these openings, you are mistaken, you might not have to learn 20+ moves of theory for each, but you will certaintly need to know them well. they are the kind of openings that if black knows what he is doing , white will need to know how not to end up worse in some critical concrete lines.

 

nighteyes is a scrub, ignore him, bobbytolpalov is another scrub too. no you are not gonna get "Crushed" if you play a move that scores 0.1 or 0.00, thats just pure ignorance. thrillerfan is NOT a scrub and despite often being a little opiniated is a good player and is mostly correct in his assessment. I will like to add though that in his analysis of the 1.b4 e5 line, my antidote is to play be2 instead of cxd5 right away, the purpose being, that xcd5 gives black the extra tempo to pull off qf6, if you play be2 first, you have enough time to 0-0 and play d4 without the bishop pinning you making the rook sac dubious.

 

they are all good openings that will bring fresh positions to your game. (for 1.nc3 you can force independent lines very often, although be open minded about playing closed sicilian, veserov, vienna gambit,and g3 viennas ,as the positions are good and still somewhat unusual). you will prob need to decide how to play vs 1.nc3 nf6 via a preferred transposition.

I'm sorry.

What I mean is- it doesn't quite... avoid preparation.

I play a -0.17 Sicilian line (french variation) that NO MASTER has ever played. That's what I call PREP!

fair enough, you wont completely avoid at least a 4 or 5 move line with any decent white opening. chess has evolved too much for that.

SmyslovFan

Ivanchuk pointed out that in order to play offbeat lines well, you have to create your own theory. You have to vet the moves yourself, and you have to come up with middle game plans.

It's certainly one way to play chess, but don't do it to reduce the amount of work in the openings you must do. It's quite a bit more work!

darkunorthodox88
SmyslovFan wrote:

Ivanchuk pointed out that in order to play offbeat lines well, you have to create your own theory. You have to vet the moves yourself, and you have to come up with middle game plans.

It's certainly one way to play chess, but don't do it to reduce the amount of work in the openings you must do. It's quite a bit more work!

i woudnt say its more work. i rather play my repertoire than deal with kids weaker than me that know 25 moves of theory and artificially play better than their strength because of it. you also dont have to keep up with every new development or fad in opening theory. 

 

one benefit of offbeat repertoires with less booklines or database games is that you always have to think for yourself, and the same goes for your opponent. if your opponent tries to do some shortcut it is quite plausible he is gonna end up worse for not respecting the uniqueness of the positions. likewise, you need to not get lazy, if your opponent plays precisely , you will also need to play precisely or risk being worse.

 

let me show you an example of how even a harmless looking offbeat line can be venomous. 

the amount of games i have won just like this agaisnt patzers is countless and i have gotten even expert level players fall for those a handful of times. black played sensibly but by not appreciating the uniqueness of the position ended up much worse