Gambits in early stage that work for Black

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algorab

In this video Dzindzi stated in

http://www.chess.com/video/player/playing-for-equality-as-black-1

http://www.chess.com/video/player/playing-for-equality-as-black-2

 

that gambits for Black in early stage of the game never work because the major dynamism is never compensated  by the loss of a pawn, but what about

1) The Tal Gambit

2) the Scandinavian c6 gambit?

3) The Fromm gambit

 

Are these gambits strong or not?

Regards



 


 

Fear_ItseIf

how early is 'early' the benko gambit is as sound as it gets

erikido23

First 2 I would call sound.  The last one I would call dubious theoretically and practically(unless you really want to play the black side of the kings gambit, which doesn't seem like the thing that someone who wants to play the from would be interested in)

algorab
Fear_ItseIf wrote:

how early is 'early' the benko gambit is as sound as it gets

Actually Dzindzi has a way to sort of refute the Benko gambit but the lecture is old so maybe there had been updates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbpV70CGFJw&feature=plcp


 

algorab
erikido23 wrote:

First 2 I would call sound.  The last one I would call dubious theoretically and practically(unless you really want to play the black side of the kings gambit, which doesn't seem like the thing that someone who wants to play the from would be interested in)

It's interesting that 1) and 2) gambits are sort of similar

Expertise87

I think the first 2 are sound. White is ill-advised to capture the c-pawn in that Scandinavian line. The 3rd, I play regularly, and I think it's fine but maybe White has some advantage anyway.

Fear_ItseIf
algorab wrote:
Fear_ItseIf wrote:

how early is 'early' the benko gambit is as sound as it gets

Actually Dzindzi has a way to sort of refute the Benko gambit but the lecture is old so maybe there had been updates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbpV70CGFJw&feature=plcp


 

i cant really bother to watch it, but I highly doubt he can refute the benko. 

Dutchday

I don't really know it, but white should not try to hold onto the pawn with c4. It takes time and it's bad for your structure. In the Scandinavian c6 is normally bad, but then white should play d4! In case of 3.c4? the gambit is justified.

I played against the From several times now. White should be theoretically better, but in practical play the difference can be small. 

There are several pawn sacrifices for black several moves deep. The only direct one I can think of now is the Budapest. Black might be able to draw a slightly inferior endgame as far as I know. Overall it's a very umpromising setup if white knows it. 

Expertise87

Dutchday, I think 3.c4 is White's best move, but it's not an attempt to hold the pawn unless Black plays 3...e6?! which is a known error. After 3...c6 White can play 4.d4 and go into the Panov-Botvinnik.

The modern main line of the Sicilian Dragon involves a pawn sacrifice that White should not accept: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 Nc6 8.Qd2 O-O 9.O-O-O d5 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxc6 bxc6 12.Nxd5?! cxd5 13.Qxd5 Qc7! and Black has probably too much compensation for just a pawn.

Dutchday

Right, I said that wrong. 3.c4 is not bad, if you decline the gambit and play d4. But if you play 3.d4, even offering the c6 pawn is bad and white can take without a problem. 

algorab
Dutchday wrote:

I don't really know it, but white should not try to hold onto the pawn with c4. It takes time and it's bad for your structure. In the Scandinavian c6 is normally bad, but then white should play d4! In case of 3.c4? the gambit is justified.

I played against the From several times now. White should be theoretically better, but in practical play the difference can be small. 

There are several pawn sacrifices for black several moves deep. The only direct one I can think of now is the Budapest. Black might be able to draw a slightly inferior endgame as far as I know. Overall it's a very umpromising setup if white knows it. 


In the previous lectures Dzindzi refutes the Budapest gambit and the Albin countergambit  . The Albin  is fun to play BTW, there is no way you can have a closed game with that opening Smile