Giuoco Piano

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Hydrocannon

A special Opening known as Giuoco Piano. I have seen this opening in my games alot. Its used by some famous Players (????)

Again, this is the start of the generation of Forums being posted off of Endgame And Opening And Chess books. Therefore, no more silly Forums Smile.

As Always, Enjoy the forum. No puzzle or Puzzle/Challenge/Problem here. Just A simple Diagram, there are more Forums to come.

.........I'll stop here, your maybe bored of reading. EnjoySmile!!


Hydrocannon
What do u think of the opening?
ayjaraki

Why are there three black bishops on the diagram?

I think that the Evans Gambit is interesting with 4. b4?! Bxb4 5. c3 with 6. d4 to follow. Its a sacrifice of a pawn for quick development and maintenance of a strong pawn structure I suppose.


Hydrocannon
Aw shucks, Two black bishops! I suck
CuervoKing

One thing I've seen a few times from a Giuoco Piano game is white exchanging a Bishop and Knight for Pawn and Rook on f7.  Speaking strictly in material values it's an even exchange, but obviously depending on the rest of the board it could prove to be good or bad.  I've been on both sides of this exchange and have never seen it work out well yet.  Anyone have any thoughts on this theme?


sstteevveenn
lol, the opening appears to be a forced win for white, since white has 6 pieces to black's 5.  Also, c3 is the defining move of the giuoco piano. 
sstteevveenn
It doesnt work out well because two pieces will kill a rook, especially with a lot of pawns on the board.  Not only that but it costs tempi to make the exchange leaving black ahead in development, and with a half open f file to use. 
Russell_Scott

white has three bishops too...=p

What I would do from the position in the diagram is 4.Nxe5 Nxe5 5.d4, I do this whenever possible 


Fromper


When counting material, it's best to consider minor pieces (knights and bishops) as being worth 3.25 pawns, not just 3. And the queen is worth 3 minor pieces, so that makes it worth around 9.75 pawns. That's according to Dan Heisman's Novice Nook column at chesscafe.com. So a knight and bishop is slightly more material than rook and pawn, plus the fact that white is giving up the bishop pair. And this trade usually happens among low level players, who hang pawns constantly in the endgame, so it's almost not worth counting pawns when trading material at that level.

As for the opening overall, I play it from both sides. I usually go for the 4. c3 Nf6 5. d4 exd4 6. e5 line as white, since most opponents are expecting the immediate 6. cxd4, so this surprises them. I've considered trying out the Evans Gambit, though.

As black, I respond to 4. c3 with Qe7. This unusual move surprises a lot of opponents, and it's a perfectly sound move, though probably not the theoretically best possible move. 

--Fromper 


sstteevveenn
It doesnt work... 4.Nxe5?? Nxe5 5.d4 Nxc4.  Something to be careful of. 
pvmike
This may be even better for black 4.Nxe5 Nxe5 5.d4 Bb4+ 6.c3 Nxc4
FHansen

I hate the Giuoco Piano! It is so boring, almost symetrical and without any possible powerful attacks for either side.

mvh Fredrik 


FreeCat
FHansen wrote:

I hate the Giuoco Piano! It is so boring, almost symetrical and without any possible powerful attacks for either side.

mvh Fredrik 


Man, boring? You must be joking:


Torkil

Anderssens Evergreen game, one of the nicest achievements of romantic chess :-)

Technically it is not part of the Giuco Piano, though.

Instead, 4.b4 is  the Evans Gambit, which has blessed the chess world with many wonderful games, but may not be entirely correct by today's theory.

The position Hydrocannon has meant to post initially is presumably this:



















This is nothing less than the starting position of the Italian Game. From here, play can continue along several subvariations which may differ quite largely in character:

  1. 4.d3 is what I have learnt to call the Giuco Piano. The Italian term translates into something like the "calm game" or "soft game", and indeed the clash of forces is less violent than in many other open games. A typical example is the line many of us probably employed as their first opening at all: 4.d3 d6 5.Nc3 Nf6. Obviously this symmetrical structure doesn't seem very imaginative, but even from here on play can still become very entertaining. Still I'd agree the approach looks boring. Another issue is the plan of following 4.d3 with c2-c3 and Nbd2, aiming for a d3-d4 thrust in the right moment. This is the plan which can be seen most frequently in GM play these days - if they play the Italian at all Wink
  2. There is a line trying to achieve d2-d4 immediately: 4.c3 Nf6 5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ 7.Nc3 (7.Bd2 Bxd2+ 8.Nbxd2 d5 is a calmer option) 7...Nxe4 has been analysed by Greco as early as 1625, but it still keeps popping up now and then in tournament practice. It is far from boring.
  3. The Evans Gambit 4.b4 has already been mentioned. It can be tremendous fun to play, but as I wrote above, the defence against this has been refined and a strong player doesn't have to fear it as Black.

sstteevveenn
c3 is the giuoco piano move, d3 is i believe just a normal italian game.  giuoco piano is anything but quiet really and both sides have plenty of opportunity to come a serious cropper.  It actually gets quite complicated.  You have to remember though the sort of stuff they were playing back then.  It is quiet compared to Evans gambit and kings gambit. 
onehandgann

Giuoco piano and italian game are the same    named after the itialian player Gioachino Greco who played it a lot. 

d3 is the giuoco pianissimo  or quietest game 

c3 is the main line of the giucoco piano or italian game.  


sstteevveenn
not really... c3 may be considered the mainline of the italian game (actually i would say d3 probably is) , but c3 is the giuoco piano.  Any other move by white is simply the italian game/normal or some other variation, not the giuoco piano.  In the same way, 3.Bb5 is the spanish - play a different move and you have a different king's knight opening, not a sideline of the spanish. 
onehandgann

oh just google giuoco pianno.  I am not going to argue over definitions.

 

Both c3 and d3 are the giuocco piano or italian game

the d3 verison is the giuoco pianissimo version of the italian game or giucco piano.

 

Giuoco piano and itialian game are interchangeable games.

 

c3 is the main line.

d3 is the quieter line.  

 

 


onehandgann
and it is defined by blacks third move not whites. Bc5 and giuoco or italian game. Nf3 and two knights defense.
sstteevveenn

Giuoco piano and Italian game are interchangeable games.

 

This is demonstrably untrue.   The Evans gambit is a variation of the italian game, not of the giuoco piano.  A quiet Evans gambit would just be silly!   Wink


If you're right, it is wrong! Laughing