e4 e5 d3
e4 e5 nf3 nc6 d3
e4 e5 b3
etc etc, no opening theory required, but you do not get any advantage out of opening, and give black easier game.
e4 e5 d3
e4 e5 nf3 nc6 d3
e4 e5 b3
etc etc, no opening theory required, but you do not get any advantage out of opening, and give black easier game.
Not so interested in something that gives black an easier game, SerbianChessStar. Again, I'm willing to learn some lines; I just don't want to go 30+ moves deep on multiple variations of one opening.
Regarding 1. c4, I agree with AnthonyCG that a 1...e5 response is great for black.
Anthony, I played the first 3 moves of the Italian game for a while, but it can be annoying against a 3...Bc5 4... Nf6, which gives Black an excellent game (at least against me). I wound up switching to the first 3 moves of the Scotch with a 3. d4 because of it. Your live standard rating is where I realistically want to be, soon-ish, so your opinion matters a great deal. Would you recommend learning more than 3 moves of the Italian game under the assumption that black plays those 3rd and 4th moves, or is there anything else that makes it more difficult for black to equalize?
I should note that I'm not completely committed to 1. e4. I just am used to it so I wrote that instinctually. I'm not allowed to change the title of the thread to remove that qualification :-(
As far as I know, the philidor defense has only a few positions to know... heh, gonna go look that up now because I'm not sure.
But pretty sure it fits your request :)
addyshuppy, I really appreciate you including the walkthrough tool. However, I believe that the Scotch often leads to Bishop & Knight vs. Rook, which I'm not entirely comfortable with. [As an aside, I'm not interested in tricking lower level players. I'd rather focus on solid positional play with the goal of increasing my standard rating.]
DrSpudnik: not interested, as 3... Nc6 gives black a free move right out of the gate.
Wafflemaster: I appreciate the input. I should probably look into that a bit, as some players do run it every once in a while, although I almost always see 2... Nc6 assuming 2.Nf3.
Lots of options: Four Knights, Vienna, Bishop's Opening, slow Italian lines with d3, Center Game, Ruy Lopez with quick deviation (exchange variation, or 5. Nc3, 5. d3, 5. d4, and so on) etc. etc.
But I would point out that the basic idea of your post seems to be a bit off. Not knowing your theory in the mainline Spanish means Black might be able to equalize a little more easily... or maybe not. It's just the nature of the positions that arise, especially in the closed variations. It's hard for Black to seize the initiative or anything even if you make a couple of inaccuracies. Compared to the KID and the Najdorf, it's less "theoretical" in that way, since a small slip-up in these openings can cause immediate disaster. In reality, neither you nor your opponents are going to know much theory anyway until you gain hundreds of rating points. My advice would be to just pick any opening that seems to lead to positions you'd enjoy playing and learn the main ideas, the first few moves of the important variations, and go from there.
DrSpudnik: not interested, as 3... Nc6 gives black a free move right out of the gate.
Wafflemaster: I appreciate the input. I should probably look into that a bit, as some players do run it every once in a while, although I almost always see 2... Nc6 assuming 2.Nf3.
lol, sorry, you said as white... yeah I suggested a black opening :p
Thanks for that response, eatingcake. So you're saying that knowing tons of theory in the Ruy Lopez is NOT necessary to "justify it," as I put it, but merely to "get the most out of it"... so that leaves the Ruy on the table.
Regarding your comment on the Najdorf and KID: fair point. I just meant that the Ruy is more theoretical in that there's more theory to know... so I guess this side issue boils down to two different semantic interpretations of what constitutes more/less "theoretical." I agree that KID and Najdorf require a sharp first dozen moves or so (probably more at higher level play), and assuming you agree that there's more theory overall to know in the Ruy if one were explore all the standard lines, we can both be right, bro (/sis).
Regarding your general response at the opening of your comment, I AM aware that there are a handful of options. I'm interested in people's suggestions and why. I can't really choose one based on the positions it leads to without learning & playing them all first, and I really don't feel like doing that at the moment, so if you HAD to pick one to recommend...
DrSpudnik: not interested, as 3... Nc6 gives black a free move right out of the gate.
Wafflemaster: I appreciate the input. I should probably look into that a bit, as some players do run it every once in a while, although I almost always see 2... Nc6 assuming 2.Nf3.
Nc6 is the anticipated response, so you might want to look a little deeper. I've faced this a few times OTB an it isn't easy to deal with. It also has the benefit of avoiding dull stuff like Petroff's & Philidor's and throwing your opponent onto his own resources early on.
There is a huge treatment of this in the Dangerous Weapons 1.e4 e5 book.
FurryKittens, that looks pretty interesting. Unfortunately I just checked it out on Game Explorer, and after 5...Ne7 6.Nxe5 ... Ng6, Black has a 26.3% win rate vs. White's 28.2% (I chose the following couple most popular responses for black). More standard openings generally still have greater than 35% win rate for white after 6 moves.
That said, there are only 160 games in that variation... not the greatest sample size. But if 5...Nb8, it's White 33.3% / Black 31.7% (120 games), so that's almost 300 master-level games where the overall win/loss ratio is not nearly as favorable for white as more standard openings.
[I know, I know, these are Master level games and are thus largely irrelevant for me at the moment, but I think it's fair to want an opening that would still be solid if I gained a few hundred points over the next few years.]
DrSpudnik: I just looked into it a bit, and while it's certainly dangerous for black, it's even more so for white: 4.Qe3 is the best response to 3...Nc6. Then after 4...Nf6, black has a 43.2% win rate vs. white's 36.2% (out of 354 games).
I don't doubt that it's difficult to deal with, but I'd like an opening where I can assume that my opponent has studied the responses in depth and still feel like I'll have the edge as white.
354 games out of how many hundred-thousands in the database? The numbers are so small on these rare lines that the results are not statistically reliable.
FurryKittens, that looks pretty interesting. Unfortunately I just checked it out on Game Explorer, and after 5...Ne7 6.Nxe5 ... Ng6, Black has a 26.3% win rate vs. White's 28.2% (I chose the following couple most popular responses for black). More standard openings generally still have greater than 35% win rate for white after 6 moves.
That said, there are only 160 games in that variation... not the greatest sample size. But if 5...Nb8, it's White 33.3% / Black 31.7% (120 games), so that's almost 300 master-level games where the overall win/loss ratio is not nearly as favorable for white as more standard openings.
[I know, I know, these are Master level games and are thus largely irrelevant for me at the moment, but I think it's fair to want an opening that would still be solid if I gained a few hundred points over the next few years.]
That particular line with 6...Ng6 does often trade off into an endgame where white is slightly better. However, the theory isn't heavy there and white's position is solid.
If you just play by the master level statistics, it's probably rather difficult to avoid large amounts of theory.
King's Gambit is a great opening after 1) e4 and 1) ... e5.
There's not that much theory to learn and your opponent probably won't know how to respond to it anyway. After 2) ... exf4, I always play 3) Nf3 but some people like 3) Bc4.
King's Gambit games tend to be very tactical so if that is your strong suit, it'd be a great opening to try.
I've decided it's time to learn the basics of an opening with the white pieces. While Game Explorer suggests that the Ruy Lopez might be the "best" response after Nf3 and Nc6 (purely based on total win/loss ratio), it looks like you really need to study looong lines of theory to justify playing it. That's also what titled players have said on these forums. Not interested...
What are your favorites that require less theory to give you a good game? [With the black pieces I play the Bb7 Najdorf vs. e5 and Kings Indian vs. d5, so I'm not opposed to learning lines, I just don't want to get bogged down in studying them deeply at the moment]
I'm happy in both open and closed structures, but would rather not use a gambit that doesn't equalize quickly, or something that often leads to having two minor pieces vs a rook.
Please explain why you like your example(s).
Thanks in advance.