Hedgehog formation

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wasderd
Just wondering, what are the main ideas of this specific formation? Is it any good? does it involve a cropload of theory? is it solid?

It seems to arise from many sicilian structures.
williamn27

Control of the light diagonal, d5 break, b5 break, control of the c-file, pressure against the e4 pawn, Ne5 or Nc5.

It is good.

As I know, it needs more positional understanding than memorization.

It is quite solid yet might be caught passive. Could be mated by a banal kingside attack if not careful.

NimzoPatzer

Yes it is solid and complicated. People may consider it easy to play but it is a hard system to master.

Shipov which is an expert on the formation has two books of around 500 pages.

This should help you tho:

http://www.thechessworld.com/learn-chess/1-openings/875-hedgehog-according-to-karpov

 

ThrillerFan

It's also not a catch-all system that can be used against everything.  The following are cases where it can be achieved:

1) English Opening without 2.g3

2) Sicilian Kan - certain variations, not all of them, don't know which specifically though as I don't play the Kan.

3) Sicilian Prins.  1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3 e6 (other options are 5...e5 and 5...Nc6, the latter can often transpose directly to the Accelerated Dragon).

NimzoPatzer

4) Classical Nimzo with c5

5) Most positions with pawns on e4 and c4.

DoctorStrange

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

ThrillerFan

KID_Harish wrote:

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

No, you really can't. Too passive. Black must attack or get rolled over. Pawn grabbing lines like the Poisoned Pawn or space gainer lines on the Queenside with ...b5 are necessary. Just because you have the small center with d6 and e6 does not constitute a hedgehog structure. The hedgehog specifically features pawns on a6, b6, d6, and e6 with the Bishops on b7 and e7. The knight is typically bettert placed on d7 and black always has to figure out what to do with the heavy pieces and when to break with d5. With no pawn on c4 or a4, such as in the Najdorf, b6 is too passive.

DoctorStrange

ThrillerFan wrote:

KID_Harish wrote:

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

No, you really can't. Too passive. Black must attack or get rolled over. Pawn grabbing lines like the Poisoned Pawn or space gainer lines on the Queenside with ...b5 are necessary. Just because you have the small center with d6 and e6 does not constitute a hedgehog structure. The hedgehog specifically features pawns on a6, b6, d6, and e6 with the Bishops on b7 and e7. The knight is typically bettert placed on d7 and black always has to figure out what to do with the heavy pieces and when to break with d5. With no pawn on c4 or a4, such as in the Najdorf, b6 is too passive.

Oh you're talking about complete HEDGEHOG formation. Sorry I thought schevenigh and Hedgehog both are same as IM Danny Rensech told in his Pawn structure 101: Maroczy bind setup. Yes I know ...b5 is necessary. ( I always play najdorf ) but I didn't know pawns should be on a6, and b6 too. Thx for your help Thrillerfan.

DoctorStrange

ThrillerFan wrote:

KID_Harish wrote:

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

No, you really can't. Too passive. Black must attack or get rolled over. Pawn grabbing lines like the Poisoned Pawn or space gainer lines on the Queenside with ...b5 are necessary. Just because you have the small center with d6 and e6 does not constitute a hedgehog structure. The hedgehog specifically features pawns on a6, b6, d6, and e6 with the Bishops on b7 and e7. The knight is typically bettert placed on d7 and black always has to figure out what to do with the heavy pieces and when to break with d5. With no pawn on c4 or a4, such as in the Najdorf, b6 is too passive.

*Schevenign

DoctorStrange

ThrillerFan wrote:

KID_Harish wrote:

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

No, you really can't. Too passive. Black must attack or get rolled over. Pawn grabbing lines like the Poisoned Pawn or space gainer lines on the Queenside with ...b5 are necessary. Just because you have the small center with d6 and e6 does not constitute a hedgehog structure. The hedgehog specifically features pawns on a6, b6, d6, and e6 with the Bishops on b7 and e7. The knight is typically bettert placed on d7 and black always has to figure out what to do with the heavy pieces and when to break with d5. With no pawn on c4 or a4, such as in the Najdorf, b6 is too passive.

*Schevenign

DoctorStrange

ThrillerFan wrote:

KID_Harish wrote:

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

No, you really can't. Too passive. Black must attack or get rolled over. Pawn grabbing lines like the Poisoned Pawn or space gainer lines on the Queenside with ...b5 are necessary. Just because you have the small center with d6 and e6 does not constitute a hedgehog structure. The hedgehog specifically features pawns on a6, b6, d6, and e6 with the Bishops on b7 and e7. The knight is typically bettert placed on d7 and black always has to figure out what to do with the heavy pieces and when to break with d5. With no pawn on c4 or a4, such as in the Najdorf, b6 is too passive.

I think there is Sicilian Schevenign variation. Yes it is. 5.Nc3 e6.

ThrillerFan
KID_Harish wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

KID_Harish wrote:

Sicilian Najdorf and Schevenign ( hedgehog) both are closely linked. You can play hedgehog as black when you play Najdorf

 

 

 

No, you really can't. Too passive. Black must attack or get rolled over. Pawn grabbing lines like the Poisoned Pawn or space gainer lines on the Queenside with ...b5 are necessary. Just because you have the small center with d6 and e6 does not constitute a hedgehog structure. The hedgehog specifically features pawns on a6, b6, d6, and e6 with the Bishops on b7 and e7. The knight is typically bettert placed on d7 and black always has to figure out what to do with the heavy pieces and when to break with d5. With no pawn on c4 or a4, such as in the Najdorf, b6 is too passive.

I think there is Sicilian Schevenign variation. Yes it is. 5.Nc3 e6.

Yes, there is the Sicilian Scheveningen, but once again, Black can't afford to play a hedgehog setup.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e6.

From here, White has a number of options.  The classical line is Be2.  There's the Keres Attack with 6.g4.  You can go into an English Attack with 6.Be3, but the English Attack is typically not as good against the Scheveningen compared to the Najdorf, where Black has spent time on ...a6, or the Taimanov.

Again for Black, playing ...a6 and ...b6 for a hedgehog structure is again bad.  The "Classical Scheveningen" features, like the Najdorf, a6 and b5.  The "Modern Scheveningen" features Black going for piece play, and holds off on pushing the a-pawn at all, and it remains on a7, at least early on.

 

Don't confuse the "Small Center", which is d6 and e6, commonly seen in many Sicilian lines, with the "Hedgehog", which is a6, b6, d6, and e6.

Sarozen

Hedgehog is a structure that is helpful to know the ideas: know the formation and prepare timely d5 or b5 and unleash the fireworks.

However, using as a catch all would be impossible. It's also a structure that comes out of more difficult openings.

If you are wanting a set structure try the Hippo using the Modern Opening.