Help me master the Stonewall please!

I think I understand most of the basic concepts of the opening.  However, there are some things I don't know how to defend against.

For example, I understand the danger of a black knight on e4 and things like that.

I typically play:

But what if the opponent plays

And if he doesn't but pushes the e pawn

Do I capture?

And if there is a more experienced Stonewall player I would love it if you gave me a guide or good advice to help me master this opening please!!!  TYSM

Possibly of interest:

Chess Psychology: The Will to Win by William Stewart

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708105336/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review901.pdf

I own that book.  Don't waste your money on it.  The book's treatment of the opening is extremely superficial, essentially useless.

Instead, better to check out...

The Stonewall Attack...

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/stonewall-attack

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell

note, the Black variant is the Stonewall Dutch Defense.  So it is possible to play in similar style as White and as Black...

Two good books for learning the Stonewall Dutch....

Win With The Stonewall Dutch by by Sverre Johnsen & Ivar Bern

https://www.amazon.com/Win-Stonewall-Dutch-Sverre-Johnsen/dp/1906454078/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=win+with+the+stonewall+dutch&qid=1580677522&s=books&sr=1-1

My First Chess Opening Repertoire for Black by Vincent Moret.....an opening repertoire for Black which includes a chapter that does an excellent job of teaching how to properly play the Stonewall Dutch...

https://www.amazon.com/First-Chess-Opening-Repertoire-Ready/dp/9056917463/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3G2LKTRLGJN6T&keywords=my+first+chess+opening+repertoire+for+black&qid=1580677639&s=books&sprefix=my+first+chess+opening%2Cstripbooks%2C199&sr=1-1

The Stonewall Dutch and the Stonewall Attack are nothing alike.  The Stonewall Dutch works under certain circumstances.  1.d4 (Weakens e4) f5 (controls e4) 2.g3 (if 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6, the move 4.Nf3 is ok for White and the Stonewall is HORRIBLE!  Black needs to play 4...Bb4.  If White has not advance the g-pawn  or e-pawn, and can still play 5.Bf4, 6.e3, and 7.Bd3, then the Stonewall is hot garbage.  Black's first priority should be to want to play 4...by after f5/Nf6/e6.  This is why White usually fianchetto, to stop b6.  If Ehite plays an early Nh3, then the Classical setup is better.

The Stonewall Attack and Bird's Opening are hot garbage because Black has not committed to ...d5, and so e5 is not weak for Black.  Openings do not always work in reverse as they often depend on a weakness due to an early commitment.  You are better off learning a more legitimate opening, like 2.c4, or the Torre and Colle.  The Torre works against 1...Nf6 and 2...e6 or 2...g6.  If ...d5 is played move 1 or 2, the Torre is no good.  The Colle requires e6 to be played to be effective.  It is no good against Nf6/g6, and after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3, if 3...e6, you can play the Colle.  If 3...Bg4 or 3...Bf5, known as the Anti-Colle, White has nothing better than 4.c4, which after 4...c6, you have the Slow Slav.

Stonewall Attack is hot garbage except against certain setups.  I would only suggest 2.e3 against 1...d5, and if 2...Nf6, be ready for a Colle instead.

Perhaps worthwhile to consider the rating of the potential reader.

lol yeah I know I suck.

thanks

Playing d4 and f4 is the basics of the stonewall. If you're letting black play e5 early on you're stonewalling wrong

Here's the basic moves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_Attack

"... Just because a book contains lots of information that you don’t know, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be extremely helpful in making you better at this point in your chess development. ..." - Dan Heisman (2001)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626180930/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman06.pdf

Figure 1. Dont play 3.. Bd3, play c4 and attack via "c" file.

Figure 2. May be 3. c4 and Qb3 ( attack on his weak point on b7 as his bishop is out)

Figure 3. Capture free pawn on e5, 4. dxe5 , yes.

To answer your questions:

1. your move order is correct and the most common way of achieving the Stonewall for white.

2. An early Bf5 is generally bad in queen's pawn openings because the weakness of b7 is quickly felt:

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1876517 is the game referenced above which again exploits the bad positioning of the bishop on f5 with 5. Qf3!

3. you can just take the pawn on e5 for free: You don't get a Stonewall but you get basically a free pawn so you should take it

I'm sorry that you don't get a stonewall in (2) and (3) but those moves basically stop the Stonewall (but give white better options!). Let me know if you have any questions. I'd recommend getting a beginners book first if possible (@kindaspongey is the best at recommending books). For a guide to Stonewall, @RussBell's blog post above is great with several resources.

P.S.

@kindaspongey was not trying to insult you: just pointing out that @ThrillerFan's comment (which may or may not be correct) is largely irrelevant since the Stonewall is (extremely) playable at your level (and upto even like 2000 I'd argue).

@TrillerFan: «the Stonewall Attack is garbage». Can you show a forced win for black in the SA? Can't you? Then you comment is garbage.

Stonewall is pretty garbage to be honest.

But even after playing all the "correct" moves (up to move 20) I lost to a 2400 OTB. So I feel like it doesn't really matter.

I don't recommend the stonewall though, because you're not exposed to a lot of position types. Basically you're only exposed to 1 or 2, and that's not a good way to improve.

Still, the OP can experiment with it for a while, and it will keep him safe from losing in the first 10 moves which is useful for beginner-level players. So I say go for it, but be ready to move on to something new as you improve.

I said Garbage, not Refuted!

Anything that gives White a slightly worse position is garbage.  White goes first!  Black should be suffering the "slightly worse position".

Learn English!  Look up "Garbage" and look up "Refuted".  They are not synonymous!

Not to mention, you are a 1500 weasel.  I have an OTB rating of well over 2000.  Hmmm...which player might actually know what they are talking about?

Your contribution to topic is negative:

- you have made it harder for @manifest_glory, a beginner, to learn from what was a reasonably phrased question

- you are talking down other members because their ratings are too low (as if yours of "well over 2000" *in USCF not FIDE is anything to be proud of): and talking down people because of their rating is the last thing that should be done on this forum.

- And as for English, with illegible gibberish like

" 1.d4 (Weakens e4) f5 (controls e4) 2.g3 (if 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e6, the move 4.Nf3 is ok for White and the Stonewall is HORRIBLE!  Black needs to play 4...Bb4.  If White has not advance the g-pawn  or e-pawn, and can still play 5.Bf4, 6.e3, and 7.Bd3, then the Stonewall is hot garbage.  Black's first priority should be to want to play 4...by after f5/Nf6/e6.  This is why White usually fianchetto, to stop b6.  If Ehite plays an early Nh3, then the Classical setup is better."

you are not in the best position to comment on other people's ability to read and write properly. 

I concur.

While ThrillerFan is a good and generally knowledgeable chess player, he unfortunately has a tendency to venture into arrogance and ad hominem attacks when someone dares to disagree with him.

The original message was not negative.  It was the simple truth.  I even went out of the way to explain the ideas behind the Stonewall Defense, and also when it's not good, and pointing out that part of the whole idea is the fact that White has committed, and that it is an opening that is specifically reliant on certain committal moves having already been made, and advising him to go a different route.

That fact that it doesn't fit your mold of what you wanted to hear, like "Oh yeah, it's such a great opening for White - You'll win a million games with it!" and that false-reassurance that makes millenials happy is never what I will speak!  I will only speak the truth and the hard facts, and sometimes, the truth hurts!  I've played probably over 100 games as Black with the Stonewall Dutch in tournament play over the board.  It's not like I'm just spouting hot air.

And what are you talking about with illegible gibberish?  My comments are in parenthesis.  1.d4 (Weakens e4) - Uhm, use your brain instead of having someone else use it for you like others from the Millenial and Digital generations do.  You advance the d-pawn to d4 and it's one less pawn that can cover e4.  e4 has been weakened.  Just like advancing 1.e4 weakens d4 and f4!  Then I say f5 (controls e4) - Uhm, when Black plays 1...f5, what squares does that pawn control?  e4 and g4.  What is there that is gibberish about it?  Sounds like to me that you must be uneducated!  Go back to school!

And as far as talking down to lower rated players.  I only do so when a lower rated player tries to be a wise guy and obnoxiously calls for a refutation when that was never what I said!  If he doesn't make that snide comment, you see nothing from me about comparing 1500 to 2000 players!  I don't take snide remarks from lower rated players.  I gave valuable information to the OP's question, even if it wasn't what he was hoping for.  The responder to my first comment in this thread is who the rating reference was directed at!

I recommend ignoring ThrillerFan, he is an unpleasant troll here for years with known mental issues. I suggest you don't take it personally, he's just not reliable in general Calling a person a "1500 weasel", this is a new low even for him.  

@ThrillerFan has a reputation of being antagonistic, but his posts have content and he's not an idiot.

Don't take what he says personally and you'll have useful pieces to add to the puzzle.

(as much as he has a disdain for coddling people, I think he'd improve his posts by recognizing there's a middle ground worth aiming at, somewhere in there)

"… I addressed his expressed interest by providing him with information relating to some of the better resources available on the topics." - RussBell (December 11, 2019)

"And I felt that it was perhaps worthwhile to consider what books are appropriate for someone with an ~1000 rating." - kindaspongey (December 11, 2019)

"I considered it. And decided to let the OP make that determination for himself." - RussBell (December 11, 2019)

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/for-beginners/a-good-chess-system-for-beginners?page=2