well first of all you need to learn a defense against the sicilian, my thoughts are the english attack and the closed sicilian. As for 1...e5 i think the evans gambit would suit you well
help with e4 opening
Sort:
How do you know what opening would suit another player well or not?
Jul 10, 2011
0
#4
cheers segway123 good advice
bishop cannons i see where you coming from but i am just askng for information regarding e4 to help me when i start to study it, as i am in experience with it and there is alot of theory with it,
kruddy123 wrote:
hey guys, i am currently a d4 player but i am currently wanting to try using e4 ,because when i play with my family alot of the games seem the same and not very attacking(we all play d4). so i think by playng e4 will give me a variety and and maybe some good attacking games.
so my question is what variations are good with e4/e5 openings but also easier to start with, and what stuff should shold i look out for e.g traps etc
cheers
cheers
a usual 1.e4, e5 2.Nf3 instantly makes an attack on the centre pawn, and is usually met with 2...Nc6 or d6. Nc6 protects the pawn staking a claim in the centre, d6 opens up the light-squared bishop. If 2...Nc6, then as white you can 3.Bc5 pinnning the knight. a lot of games start this way... hope this helps!
As i see u will have choice betwean :
- Ruy Lopez - create disbalance early
- Italian game - slow and boring
- Scotch Game - open from start
But , mb u can pick english opening too ( reverse sicilian as white ) as that is real nice counter to d peon openings
kruddy123 wrote:
cheers segway123 good advice
bishop cannons i see where you coming from but i am just askng for information regarding e4 to help me when i start to study it, as i am in experience with it and there is alot of theory with it,
What my question was intended to highlight for you is that there is no one, "best", opening. What suits one player's personality, may very well not suit another and so forth.
1.e4 does have it's advantages, but conversely it also has it's drawbacks and I feel the main drawback is that black has so many reasonable responses to 1.e4 that white is forced to learn many different openings and this can be a challenging task. 1.e4 also invites the response of the deadly Sicilian Defense and one had better know how to play against the Sicilian, or you can be sliced and diced by it.
An alternative that I like to use is 1.c4, the English Opening, which has a lot going for it and is a very unique opening with many strong points to it.
Read carefully ajedrecito's post, which is very instructive.All you need is there.
In particular his recommendation against the sicilian. The sicilian is an advanced opening which should not be played without a very good chess understanding. Many beginners say that the sicilian is superstrong and that W is going to get slaughtered if he plays the main lines. This is just false. The only one risking a quick knockout is B. B needs a lot of theory to keep his position together, while W can play natural attacking moves. Just play the open and you will make under-1800(OTB) sicilian players suffer horribly. Over that level things might change of course, but the experience with the open will always be an helpful thing.
Another thing: the italian is a good alternative to 3.d4, because it's simple to understand. "slow and boring"?? the italian played the classical way (c3-d4,moller attack and so on) is just brutal. W is going for the king and nothing else. He will not succed with best play, but if you want a fighting game this might suit your tastes.
ajedrecito wrote:
I don't think the Sicilian is an opening you will be 'sliced and diced' by at the sub-2000 level ;)
The basic ideas of controlling the center and developing your pieces are central to the 1.e4 openings as they are to 1.d4. 1.e4 can be a bit more dangerous as the pieces can easily attack the weak square f7 (the weak square on c7 is less dangerous, generally speaking).
After 1.e4 e5, for example, 2.Nf3 is clearly the main move, attacking the pawn. This pawn is undefended (contrary to the position after 1.d4 d5, where 2.Nc3 is basically inadvisable as it is better to move the c-pawn before putting the knight there, i.e. 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3)
So Black has to do something about it: he can defend the e5 Pawn (with d6, f6, Nc6, Qf6, Qe7 for example, some moves being better than others. Best are Nc6 and d6 for defending the pawn. f6 is a known error as White is much better after both 3.Bc4 and 3.Nxe5. Early queen moves are not recommended.)
Or he can attack White's e4 pawn (with f5, d5, or Nf6, with Nf6 being by far the most reasonable of these moves)
White should have a response to these three main lines (2...Nc6, 2...Nf6 and 2...d6) and actually I play 3.d4 against all of them although 3.Bc4 and 3.Bb5 are quite reasonable responses to 2...Nc6 and 3.Nxe5 is the main reply to 2...Nf6. There is a nice trap after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 Nxe4!? 4.Qe2! Nf6?? 5.Nc6 discovered check, winning Black's queen. Black should instead play 3...d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 which is much safer.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6, the old Philidor defense, has the problem of locking in the f8 Bishop. This is not a huge drawback although the main problem is that Black can easily end up in a passive position. 3.d4 is the recommended reply while 3.Bc4 is also quite good.
In addition to 1...e5 there are a number of other possible replies: 1...c5 is the most popular move in tournament play (the Sicilian Defense). Here the main line runs 2.Nf3 followed by 3.d4 against most Black moves (2...a6 in particular is not met by 3.d4 but instead by either 3.c4 or 3.c3, for reasons I would not like to go into in any kind of introduction to playing 1.e4) and this is called the Open sicilian. Black will take on d4 most of the time and White will recapture with the Knight. This creates an imbalance: Black has a queenside minority (the minority attack is an overarching theme in many Sicilian defenses) and an extra central pawn, White develops the pieces more easily and can attack more easily, generally speaking. These lines are lots of fun for both sides! Other possibilities exist but this is my recommendation.
1...e6 is the third most common move (after 1...c5 and 1...e5) and this is called the French defense. As a general rule, if Black lets you play 2.d4 without either controlling that square with a pawn or attacking your e4 pawn (or hanging a pawn with 1...b5) it is advisable to play it on move two. So 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 (attacking the e4 Pawn) and now the main move is 3.Nc3 defending the pawn.
The other popular opening is 1...c6, the Caro-Kann defense. It has an advantage over the French defense in that the bishop on c8 enters play much more easily. GMs Dzindzichashvili, Alburt, and Perelshteyn contend that the Caro-Kann actually gives Black the best chance for equality out of the non-e5 non-c5 defenses to 1.e4. The main line runs similar to the French for White's first three moves: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3.
Other moves that don't allow d4 include 1...d5 (the Scandinavian or Center Counter defense, White plays 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 gaining time by attacking the exposed Queen, or in the case of 2...Nf6 White can hold onto the pawn for a move with 3.c4 planning to accept Black's pawn offer on 3...e6 but should reject the pawn offer on 3...c6, or can simply play 3.d4 with a small advantage) and 1...Nf6 (the Alekhine defense, White can play 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4, or 2.Nc3 defending the pawn, both are fine although 2.e5 probably gives White more of an advantage and it is rather unclear whether White is really better after, for example, 2.Nc3 e5, although at your level it is of course fine)
The best way to learn is to play games! See what you like and don't like. Play through some famous games (I could recommend a few as could other players) to learn the basic ideas, attacks and defenses, etc. Good luck!
This post really does demonstrate the problems with playing e4 without sufficient knowledge (not that the poster has insufficient knowledge, but it is impossible to make a post long enough to explain how to play 1.e4).
If white is going to play 1.e4 then the knowledge given about the sicillian and french, going for very complicated mainlines, will simply lead to crazy positions, full of traps, where you will easily go wrong.
Don't think this is all you need to play 1.e4.
great post ajedricito. the only thing that i would change is that around our levels against the philidor i like 3.Bc4 because like 3.D4 it leads to a good position but with 3.Bc4 for our games one in about 6 players play 3...Nf6? which is no good after 4.Ng5!
cofail, i understand that the post is just an introduction, but in my view it's really more than enough for a beginner. Of course you need hundreds of pages of informations to really play 1.e4(or anything else) well,but a beginner eqiped with that post and the general opening rules will go quite far without problems. A time will come for something more advanced of course, but for now he just need to get into the fight with a playble position. Of course in the resulting positions both sides can easily go wrong, is this a problem? A wild struggle is the perfect training ground to improve, and falling into opening traps is ok also; trading a loss for a bit of unforgivable opening knowledge is really a good deal. Just play tons of games and you will leard how to play e4. Nothing more is needed for a beginner.
Openings like the king's gambit are what attract me to becoming an e4 player. Here are numerous examples of how to play the king's gambit.
1. The king's gambit accepted.
2. The king's gambit accepted.
3. The king's gambit declined.
4. The king's gambit declined.
5. The king's gambit Cunningham Defence.
6. The king's gambit falkbeer countergambit
7. The king's gambit against a typical pawn-hungry player.
Whatever variation you are up against, you can always be ready for a fierce battle! And the good news is: you are much more likely to face 1... e5 against 1. e4 than you are to face 1... d5 against 1. d4, giving you more chances to play the king's gambit than the queen's gambit. Good luck!
bresando wrote:
cofail, i understand that the post is just an introduction, but in my view it's really more than enough for a beginner. Of course you need hundreds of pages of informations to really play 1.e4(or anything else) well,but a beginner eqiped with that post and the general opening rules will go quite far without problems. A time will come for something more advanced of course, but for now he just need to get into the fight with a playble position. Of course in the resulting positions both sides can easily go wrong, is this a problem? A wild struggle is the perfect training ground to improve, and falling into opening traps is ok also; trading a loss for a bit of unforgivable opening knowledge is really a good deal. Just play tons of games and you will leard how to play e4. Nothing more is needed for a beginner.
I disagree, you cannot tell anyone to play the open sicilian just knowing 4 moves, the closed would be better. To tell a beginner to play 3.Nc3 in the french with no other knowledge would lead to similar problems. Would it not be better to tell the beginner to improvise from move 2?
In my view no. Better to improvise after move 4 in an open position where simple development will never be terribly wrong, than in a closed one. I would never suggest the closed to a beginner. I know that you are much stronger than me and your opinion probably derives from a better understanding, but i can't really see the problem with a variation where playing simply Nc3,Bc4,f4,0-0 with open piece play against everything is generally ok against sub-2000 opposition. This looks like the exact thing a beginner should look for.
bresando wrote:
In my view no. Better to improvise after move 4 in an open position where simple development will never be terribly wrong, than in a closed one. I would never suggest the closed to a beginner. I know that you are much stronger than me and your opinion probably derives from a better understanding, but i can't really see the problem with a variation where playing simply Nc3,Bc4,f4,0-0 with open piece play against everything is generally ok against sub-2000 opposition. This looks like the exact thing a beginner should look for.
I agree completely. Therefore comments such as, play the open sicilian, are bad for beginners who cannot understand the ideas behind the opening.
Also, I am not convinced I am stronger than you.
No need to develop an entire repertoire if you are just playing with members of your family. Start with 1.e4 e5 opening, and see how you opponent responds. Then look up the opening your opponent replies with. Learn just enough openings to stay competitive with your family.
Ruy lopez - bigger chance to get a draw
Italian game - bigger chance to win
Scotch - between those two openings
I'd study Italian though, it has proven to be the best in my experience.
Oh and all of this is according to my database, so if someone wants to argue with me, please do.
Fasaa wrote:
Ruy lopez - bigger chance to get a draw
Italian game - bigger chance to win
Scotch - between those two openings
I'd study Italian though, it has proven to be the best in my experience.
Oh and all of this is according to my database, so if someone wants to argue with me, please do.
I'm arguing. The choice of opening between the scotch, italian, and ruy lopez will have minimal difference on a beginner.
cofail wrote:
Fasaa wrote:
Ruy lopez - bigger chance to get a draw
Italian game - bigger chance to win
Scotch - between those two openings
I'd study Italian though, it has proven to be the best in my experience.
Oh and all of this is according to my database, so if someone wants to argue with me, please do.
I'm arguing. The choice of opening between the scotch, italian, and ruy lopez will have minimal difference on a beginner.
What I meant was my statistics... For a beginner who plays against limited people, I would recommend to study their strategies and abuse them..
And the fried liver attack from Italian works pretty nicely against other beginners... I'm sure your family knows nothing about Traxler anyway.
hey guys, i am currently a d4 player but i am currently wanting to try using e4 ,because when i play with my family alot of the games seem the same and not very attacking(we all play d4). so i think by playng e4 will give me a variety and and maybe some good attacking games.
so my question is what variations are good with e4/e5 openings but also easier to start with, and what stuff should shold i look out for e.g traps etc
cheers
cheers