How about in terms of # of moves? How deeply does one need to memorize to know enough theory to play at the Class A level? 10 moves per line? 20 moves per line?
I understand that some lines are more theoretical and require more memorization. So, an overview of which lines are more theoretical and which ones are less theoretical would be helpful.
Thanks.
I heard that there is a lot of memorization that must be done if one wants to play the Grunfeld as Black. One can't simply rely on general principles or even more position-specific "plans" but must know specific moves at specific junctures in the game.
Is that true? If so, how much memorization does one really need to do if one wants to play the Grunfeld well in Class A and above chess (ELO 1800+)?
Our of curiosity, what is your USCF rating, if you have one?
Around 1600ish. I am asking about Class A (1800+) though because I want to play openings for the long-haul. That is, I don't want to learn an opening now and then have to abandon it later because it is too difficult/theoretical/challenging when i get to a higher level.
But really, I ask this question mostly because I am really curious to know how theoretical the Grunfeld really is exactly. I already have a defense against 1d4 and am not currently looking to change my repertoire, though I might pick up the Grunfeld later on when I improve if I find it sufficiently interesting.
I am around 2000 Fide and I maybe know my best openings up to move 12 or 13. There is no need to know them super deep. You can play some lines of the Grunfeld on more general principle. Nigel Davies has a very old series on the Grunfeld that I would recommend where he takes black into non theory lines. I will try and find the name for you later.
I like to concentrate a bit more on lines recommended for White against the Grunfeld in repertoire books because there is a good chance that is what your opponent is relying on.
Some examples of 1.d4 books I own:
Avrukh's (this one is pretty popular - he also wrote a book on the Grunfeld, so it's interesting to see what he recommends against what he recommends 
)
Playing 1.d4 by Schandorff
Starting Out 1.d4 by John Cox
A Strategic Opening Repertoire by Watson
Attack with 1.d4 by Dunnington
Attacking the Grunfeld by Taylor
Beating the Fianchetto Defenses by Grivas
Kaufman Repertoire (similar to Avkurh in that he also recommends the Grunfeld for Black. Make sure you get the 2nd edition because in the 1st he recommended 1.e4 for White and the Semi-Slav for Black...)
Beating the Indian Defences by Burgess Pedersen (old book but still a decent line)
Play 1.d4! by Palliser
There's a new one on the f3 Grunfeld and another one coming out soon so you might want to have something ready against that as well.
I heard that there is a lot of memorization that must be done if one wants to play the Grunfeld as Black. One can't simply rely on general principles or even more position-specific "plans" but must know specific moves at specific junctures in the game.
Is that true? If so, how much memorization does one really need to do if one wants to play the Grunfeld well in Class A and above chess (ELO 1800+)?
there is another thing to note: if you're comfortable with having whites pawns pushing on e file and d file then the opening suits you.
Around 1600ish. I am asking about Class A (1800+) though because I want to play openings for the long-haul. That is, I don't want to learn an opening now and then have to abandon it later because it is too difficult/theoretical/challenging when i get to a higher level.
But really, I ask this question mostly because I am really curious to know how theoretical the Grunfeld really is exactly. I already have a defense against 1d4 and am not currently looking to change my repertoire, though I might pick up the Grunfeld later on when I improve if I find it sufficiently interesting.
Ok thank you!
As a piece of advice...choose 2 openings for white and black that youre comfortable playing. Learn the ideas, and principles behind those openings. Youre study time should be put into middlegame planning, and enmdgame knowledge. Or let me put it this way....say you learn the Gruenfeld, or whatever opening 20 moves deep. Now once youre in the middle game, what do you do?
Do you know how to decide on a game plan?
Do you know how to find, and decide on what weaknesses to attack?
Are you familiar with Fines, and Steinitz's middle game ideas/rules?
Im in no way saying you dont know or understand these things, i simply bring them up because i see so many posts here, and i hear so many young players at tournaments bragging how they know an opening 20 moves deep...Im an attacking player...etc. But once they get to a middle game they have no idea what to do. Im just suggesting you spend your study time on things more worthwhile...Good Luck to you!
^ I agree. I think that, for example, Soltis's "Pawn Structure Chess" is a great book because he explains how to play middlegame positions featuring certain pawn structures.
I do spend most of my time in middlegame and endgame.
The point of this thread is not so much to learn the Grunfeld but to find out how many moves I will need to memorize in the main lines of the Grunfeld should I choose to play that opening.
^ I agree. I think that, for example, Soltis's "Pawn Structure Chess" is a great book because he explains how to play middlegame positions featuring certain pawn structures.
I do spend most of my time in middlegame and endgame.
The point of this thread is not so much to learn the Grunfeld but to find out how many moves I will need to memorize in the main lines of the Grunfeld should I choose to play that opening.
Until youre AT LEAST 1800...dont memorize openings. Learn the ideas/principles of the Gruenfeld.
^ I agree. I think that, for example, Soltis's "Pawn Structure Chess" is a great book because he explains how to play middlegame positions featuring certain pawn structures.
I do spend most of my time in middlegame and endgame.
The point of this thread is not so much to learn the Grunfeld but to find out how many moves I will need to memorize in the main lines of the Grunfeld should I choose to play that opening.
Pressure on d4 from ...Bg7, ...c5, ...Nc6 and the queen on d8. White is encouraged to set up a big pawn center while black undermines it.
You now know how to play it...
it has lots of variations and its hypermodern so be careful
OH YEAH!!!
love my shoes so much
Like my underlings once said, "Kidnap the Sandy Clause, chop him into bits, Mr.Oogie Boogie is sure to get his kicks". Yeah, I coerced him into giving me some New Balances New Balance and Saucony are just about the only brands I trust, the others are just fashion shoes posing as running shoes -_-
The Grunfeld can be very complex, but let's face it--you're not going to be playing Lev Aronian so you don't have to over do it. I think it's much more important to play over a bunch of master games in the Grunfeld and try to really understand what's going on, why certain moves are chosen or rejected. This kind of understanding will serve you much better than trying to remember the right 17th move.
Agreed. I still remember the Grunfeld many moves deep and switched over to the Nimzo-Bogo Indian complex and Leningrad Dutch because the Grunfeld is too sterile and boring. It has this dull mechanical feel to it. I was drawn to it originally because it was said to be the ultimate clash between the classical and hypermodern schools, but the mainline isn't forced and white could go for a Fianchetto too. Even then the mainline is more boring than the clash of schools sounds on paper.
You need to memorize exactly 34 moves in the exchange variation with Ne2 and Bc4, 26 moves in the exchange with Nf3 and Rb1, 23 moves in the Russian variation, and 17 moves in the fianchetto.
Well, actually, the reason why people say you have to know so much Grunfeld Theory in order to play it is because you have to be prepared for everything that White can play. They can either choose a sideline as early as move 4, or actually play Mainlines. Black has to be very precise, and white usually has like 3-4 moves that are good. I'm not saying Grunfeld is bad, I'm just saying that it's risky to play Grunfeld against a strong player because of the fact that you give up the center in order to try to crack it open later in the game, and the hardest part is to know when to attack white's center. I have played and studied the Grunfeld for about 4-5 years, and the hardest variation in my opinion is the exchange variation with 7. Nf3 c5 8 Rb1
You need to memorize exactly 34 moves in the exchange variation with Ne2 and Bc4, 26 moves in the exchange with Nf3 and Rb1, 23 moves in the Russian variation, and 17 moves in the fianchetto.
Can someone corroborate whether this is roughly true? It seems to be in line with what I've read elsewhere, but it would be helpful to hear from Grunfeld player here.
I agree with the census of the grunfeld. It is full of mines and one wrong move for black and it's lights out.
I have found out the hard way that I should have gone for a kings indian instead of a grunfeld against stronger players. It's just so irresistible when you get the opportunity for a grunfeld though! It looks so damn pretty on the board when it happens.
For the month of March 2014, 1.d4 Nf6 Indians are hosting the Gruenfeld Defense as the "Opening Of The Month". Those interested are welcomed to apply. Below are our listed activities.
Each "Opening Of The Month" will feature these activities in the same Indian Defense:
1) There will be 2 Vote Chess games per month. We will play 1 game as White and 1 as Black. Vote Chess games will start at the beginning of the month as soon as the opposing group accepts the challenge.
2) There will be 4 Team Matches in 4 rating groups: u1400, 1400-1600, 1600-1800, and 1800+. Team Match rosters will remain open for the ENTIRE month in question. Rosters will be locked at the end of the month.
3) Depending on the number of entries, Tournaments will be held in groups of 2 (pair) to 4 (Quads). These Tournaments will be in-house, unrated, and by invitation only. Interested members can post in the "News" item where the "Opening of the Month" is announced. Simply stating something like "I'm in" will suffice to receive an invitation. The Tournament invitations will be sent at end of the "Opening Of The Month".
4) Forums will be created to analzye the opening, post instructive material, give comments on things learned in the game, discuss future varatiatons to be played, how great it is to be a part of our group, etc. 
An Indian participating in all the activities for the month would play a total of 10 games ( 2 V/C + 2 TM + 6 Quad = 10 games).
You need to memorize exactly 34 moves in the exchange variation with Ne2 and Bc4, 26 moves in the exchange with Nf3 and Rb1, 23 moves in the Russian variation, and 17 moves in the fianchetto.
Can someone corroborate whether this is roughly true? It seems to be in line with what I've read elsewhere, but it would be helpful to hear from Grunfeld player here.
I have memorized the Grunfeld extensively and it has never helped me. Not only is memorizing a bad idea, not only does no one ever confront me in the mainlines, but I can lose just fine without imitating grandmasters along the way. The Grunfeld is a beautiful opening which requires delicate handling. When it goes bad it goes very bad, and I love it and I am willing to accept it.
#beautifulwomenarethemostdangerous
I heard that there is a lot of memorization that must be done if one wants to play the Grunfeld as Black. One can't simply rely on general principles or even more position-specific "plans" but must know specific moves at specific junctures in the game.
Is that true? If so, how much memorization does one really need to do if one wants to play the Grunfeld well in Class A and above chess (ELO 1800+)?