How do I Properly Combat the London System

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Redgreenorangeyellow

How do I combat super solid variations of the London System? I will post a picture of what I mean in the next post. The London System seems to be an opening which provides attacking opportunities for white if it is improperly treated by the opposing side, but for black, there seems to be no way to get a tiny advantage. I realized this today when I lost against a 1000 in blitz after he crushed me with the system. Is the only way to deal with the London System as black by trying to squeeze out an equal endgame little by little? It would also help if you would share some games which feature the London system and how the pros deal with it. 

Redgreenorangeyellow

Here it is: 

 

Alramech

I won't be able to reply in one solid post, but I did some searching which led to an older thread if you want to also check that out: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/good-reply-for-black-to-the-london-system

 

I have also heard of "anti-London" system openings, but I'm not familiar what they entail.  Could be a possible thing to look into as well.  

Hopefully these will give some ideas in addition to any other comments.

TIGERSintheSUN
Hi Redgreenorangey...🇨🇦
tictactoeprodigy

You mean this game?

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/5402329097

Im a London player myself, so I think I can sort of answer this question. In general, I hate playing against fianchetto (KID) systems when I play the London. None of the standard plans work, especially since Black plays d6-e5 stuff. 
I literally play the Torre Attack (a completely different opening) if my opponent plays nf6-g6, because it’s not fun to play the London against the KID.

Rockroyal

Try systems with 1...c5 after 1.d4 and this can be a solid response. If you learn the theory, this can take many London players (like me) out of their comfort zones, so you should give it a try.

 

tictactoeprodigy

Usually white just does d5 and has a comfortable game with more space. I’ve never studied those lines as white, since i don’t think they’re objectively that good.

tictactoeprodigy
Rockroyal wrote:

Try systems with 1...c5 after 1.d4 and this can be a solid response. If you learn the theory, this can take many London players (like me) out of their comfort zones, so you should give it a try.

 

I’m not saying that’s a bad opening, but, in general, you don’t want to go too far out of your way to surprise your opponents. I checked the OPs archive a bit and he seems to like more open, sharp games, like Sicilian. Personally I don’t think he’d want to play a Benoni (where you just have less space), but it could be interesting to try out.

Bishop_g5
Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

How do I combat super solid variations of the London System? I will post a picture of what I mean in the next post. The London System seems to be an opening which provides attacking opportunities for white if it is improperly treated by the opposing side, but for black, there seems to be no way to get a tiny advantage. I realized this today when I lost against a 1000 in blitz after he crushed me with the system. Is the only way to deal with the London System as black by trying to squeeze out an equal endgame little by little? It would also help if you would share some games which feature the London system and how the pros deal with it. 

 

 As you have noticed Whites have a very solid structure when playing the London system. Blacks can't force easy a dynamic position without concessions if the first player doesn't make something to play e4 or c4.  Perhaps the most aggressive approach against it is the double fianchetto set up aiming to play e5. 

 
 

 

Redgreenorangeyellow
Redgreenorangeyellow wrote:

How do I combat super solid variations of the London System? I will post a picture of what I mean in the next post. The London System seems to be an opening which provides attacking opportunities for white if it is improperly treated by the opposing side, but for black, there seems to be no way to get a tiny advantage. I realized this today when I lost against a 1000 in blitz after he crushed me with the system. Is the only way to deal with the London System as black by trying to squeeze out an equal endgame little by little? It would also help if you would share some games which feature the London system and how the pros deal with it. 

 

I watched a couple of videos with pros playing the London and it turns out that many of them like to play d5 and then later on c5, kind of a delayed Benoni

 

 

Redgreenorangeyellow
Rockroyal wrote:

Try systems with 1...c5 after 1.d4 and this can be a solid response. If you learn the theory, this can take many London players (like me) out of their comfort zones, so you should give it a try.

 

I have tried the Benoni and I dont really like it. 

MinecraftProGamer-1


This is a Benoni. d5 and c5 is not a Benoni. 

Varkenskop

I would advise the line: 1 d4 Nf6/d5 2 Bf4 Nf6/d5 3 e3 c5 4 c3 Nc6 5 Nd2 (if Nf3? Qb6 Qb3 c5 Qc2 Bf5 is possible) Bf5. Black has equalized and there’s not much to be afraid of in the line. 

Redgreenorangeyellow
MinecraftProGamer-1 wrote:


This is a Benoni. d5 and c5 is not a Benoni. 

I know that d4c5 is an "Old Benoni", but I just used Benoni as a general term. Thanks for reminder

KeSetoKaiba
Rockroyal wrote:

Try systems with 1...c5 after 1.d4 and this can be a solid response. If you learn the theory, this can take many London players (like me) out of their comfort zones, so you should give it a try.

This is a good idea. The problem with the London opening is that it is passive and puts little pressure on Black, so they have freedom to choose their defense and there is a lot of theory to select from. The main options are probably 1...d5 and 1...Nf6. Yeah, I know - that is just one move, but there is a ton of theory and lines available. Personally, I typically play 1. d4 d5 (unafraid of the London Opening) and play for an early ...c5 with Queenside counterplay ideas.

A friend of mine in an OTB chess club played the Englund Gambit against a renowned London player - just because he wanted to get them out of book lol - He won with the Englund Gambit decisively, just because the London player was unprepared.

DrChesspain

I started playing the Gruenfeld 40 years ago because I was tired of getting mated by the Colle.

Gruenfeld/KID works just as well against the London. 

MorphysMayhem
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
Rockroyal wrote:

Try systems with 1...c5 after 1.d4 and this can be a solid response. If you learn the theory, this can take many London players (like me) out of their comfort zones, so you should give it a try.

This is a good idea. The problem with the London opening is that it is passive and puts little pressure on Black, so they have freedom to choose their defense and there is a lot of theory to select from. The main options are probably 1...d5 and 1...Nf6. Yeah, I know - that is just one move, but there is a ton of theory and lines available. Personally, I typically play 1. d4 d5 (unafraid of the London Opening) and play for an early ...c5 with Queenside counterplay ideas.

A friend of mine in an OTB chess club played the Englund Gambit against a renowned London player - just because he wanted to get them out of book lol - He won with the Englund Gambit decisively, just because the London player was unprepared.

It will work at a certain level. But against a prepared opponent, and against the Englund, that is not too hard to prepare - black is just down a pawn for not much compensation.

 


White just has to be aware not to play 4.Bf4 which is about the only sucker trap in the Englund.

TeacherOfPain

There is no proper way to combat the opening in my eyesight. The opening is generally runned by your understanding and whoever makes the better moves. The difference between this opening an other openings is the fact that it is straightforward, simple and equal which makes it the more good for white.

Of course it is a nice, quiet and positional line that is very reliable in all play. However again there is no way to combat this, and unlike other openings in which there is a mountain of theory(aka Sicilian or Grunfeld) I think the person who makes the better moves will win, rather than any way to try to combat it.

Different people will give different suggestions on how to combat this specific opening and that is cool, but in my expierience the best way to combat moves is either to have superior understanding or superior theory, but in all truthfulness 9/10 I will always want superior understanding and because of this lookign at how you should potray the opening and middlegame through unique and the latter understandings is better than just knowing the theory, sometimes it is good to get out of the book. 

But whatever the case it is up to you. 

CLOSED_llabing

Maybe try something like this:

 

blueemu

Instead of Nfd7 (which does look fully playable, of course) why not Nc6, meeting d5 (attacking the Knight) with e5 (attacking the Bishop) and if Bg5 then Ne7?

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