How to crack the Gruenfeld Defense as White?

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cogitomusic

Hi everyone I've been having a lot of trouble against the Gruenfeld lately and was wondering if anyone could recommend some lines for me I usually play the line below...

 

Kretinovich

The reason the grunfeld is so complex and contains so much theory is because of the various anti-lines. There are many other systems to play besides the line you show,that line is by the way the exchange main line. 

 

IMBacon22

Notable players that play this as white:

Rainer Knaak

Peter Lukacs

Svetozar Gligoric

Study the pawn structure.  
Where does each side have the advantage?
Where are the pawn breaks?
Are there any minority attacks?
 
MayCaesar

I really dislike playing the conventional Grunfeld lines as white, because of how much pressure the d-pawn gets, so I just play e4-e5 at some point, to shut down black's fianchettoed bishop. I know, this isn't the greatest way to play, but it's worked well for me personally, on my mortal level of opposition.

 

You also can play, instead of 5. e4, 5. Nf3, followed by e3, giving extra support to the d-pawn, at the cost of gaining less space than in the main lines.

CNoahSay
I have been trying out Qa5+. Here are some master games to help illustrate. It prevents the queen from being pinned with Bg4, Pressurizes c5, allows a rook to go to d1...
 
 
 

 

 

Bramblyspam

I've used an uncommon line recommended by John Watson in his 1. d4 2. c4 repertoire book for white:



There are obviously plenty of deviations and sidelines, but the key point is that 7. Bg5 enables white's rook to go straight to c1. Black can't win a pawn with 8... cxd4 9. cxd4 Bxd4? because white has 10. Rxc8. You can look up further details if this looks interesting to you.


TwoMove

Can try avoiding playing 3Nc3 early to avoid typical grunfeld pawn structures. For example 1.d4 Nf6 2c4 g6 3Nf3 Bg7 4e3 d5 after c4xd5 Nxd5 black can't exchange nd5.

moonnie

First of all the Grunfeld is a hard to crack opening and one of the reasons currently many top GM's avoid 1. d4 and start playing c4 and Nf3 (to get into various anti Grunfelds). So getting an advantage against the Grunfeld will be hard. Next thing to hope for is play positions you like. There are several idea's in this area

1. Play lines with Be3 / Qd2 / Rc1 these lines are equal but trough the entire game white retains some small pressure and the play is different from traditional Grunfeld play (not that much pressure on your center). If you like endgames and pressure play like Kramnik this would be a good line for you. Marin has a nice chessbase dvd on this topic  

2) Also possible is the line with 5. Bd2 .. where you can play as Svidler with e3 and f4 aiming for a kingside attack. Also no advantage here but a different type of position

3) There are also the slow lines with 4. Bf4. Once again no advantage and in this line you need to have some decent theoretical knowledge to avoid getting worse but once again different position different play

poucin

If u play Saemisch variation againt KID, then u can opt for 3.f3!

Indirect

Okay, several things,

First of all, black usually plays c5 before castling, I don't know why some of your diagrams posted here involve castling first and playing c5 afterwards. After all, the Grunfeld is all about taking a crack at White's center as soon as possible.

Secondly, to Leo C's post, the combination of Nf3 and Bc4 doesn't generally combine well against the Grunfeld, (which is why most players will play Ne2 and Bc4) 

And to CNoahSay, Qa4+ is an interesting line, and the main move by far is Nd7, but in the game you posted white got an advantage early because after 9.Be2 c6?! isn't really the way for black to play. The key idea in the Grunfeld is always to try to get in c5 in to disrupt the center. 

Bottom line, you have to choose a line that fits well with your style of play. There are countless lines you can choose from, and we are no where near super GM level so an "inferior line" won't be immediate death, but just remember that every move you make in the opening can be the difference between getting wild position or a very positional game.

For example NM Bramblyspam's post involves white playing positionally, but if you were to play d5 before inserting Nf3 in black can respond with f5! where the positions will get very tactical and wild (Black can still play f5 with Nf3, but I personally think white does better in that line). 

Other lines include playing 5.Bd2 rather than 5.e4 where white tries to neutralize black's fianchetto'd bishop by recapturing on c3 with a Bishop. Or maybe you'd prefer the Russian system. It's all up to you.

TwoMove

After 1.d4 Nf6 2c4 g6 3Nf3 Bg7 4e3 d5 5pxp Nxp 6e4 Nb6 7a4 do you still want to do the active c5 before castling?, or improve somewhere earlier.

Indirect
TwoMove wrote:

After 1.d4 Nf6 2c4 g6 3Nf3 Bg7 4e3 d5 5pxp Nxp 6e4 Nb6 7a4 do you still want to do the active c5 before castling?, or improve somewhere earlier.

Learn to read, I explicitly said the word usually. Last time I checked usually doesn't mean always. Furthermore I was talking about some of the lines mentioned previously, and as far as I'm concerned the line you gave wasn't mentioned previously.

TwoMove

I mentioned upto  5...nxp previously and the extra 3ply shows white's idea but if you don't want to discuss this line no big deal.

Indirect
Morphysrevenges wrote:

On move 10. play d5!?

Most lower rated players will snap the pawn on c3 with check, then you play Bd2, they will trade bishops and you recapture with the queen. Then the queen is all set to infiltrate on h6. 

 

don't castle, but push h2-h4-h5, etc. prying open the h-file. You will get lots of pressure. 

May I ask what line you're looking at? The only line I see in this thread with 10.d5 is bramblyspam's and there's a rook defending the c3 pawn.

And to your point of just pushing the h-pawn, there's a lot more to playing than simply pushing, while that may work in blitz, in a classical game it's not as easy as I'm sure everyone's heard that the best way to counter a wing attack is with a center break, which is precisely what the Grunfeld is about, pressuring the center.

TwoMove
Optimissed wrote:
TwoMove wrote:

I mentioned upto  5...nxp previously and the extra 3ply shows white's idea but if you don't wamt to discuss this line no big deal.>>

I think it was Kasparov who popularised the Nf3 systems and Karpov was a great expert on Ne2. All these lines have been analysed so closely there's no point in playing the Exchange Grunfeld. However, after 4.Qb3, black has something like five major systems. This can play right into white's hands. White just needs to play sensibly and black needs to know a lot of theory.

After 4. e3 there's virtually no theory and it's a perfectly good move for white. Non-forcing can be good. 4. Bf4 is good for white but white has to be very accurate. It's rather difficult.

 

Yes 4e3 seems to make it difficult for grunfeld players to get their autopilot counterplay, for example 4 ...0.0 5Be2 d5 6pxp Nxp 7e4 Nb6 80.0 if 8...c5 9d5 e6 10Bg5 Qd7 11Nc3 if black tries to win a pawn with 11...BxN white will get very good compensation on black squares. Not really sure what black's best approach is, there are not that many games. White doesn't need to know massive amounts of theory.