I remember someone wrote "you take simple defensive measures on the king side and pawn storm the queenside".
How to defeat the Stonewall?
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Like in this correspondence game:
TheSonics wrote:
In both games I went for a d6 setup... the other 2 games I lost I can't find them but I played a d5 setup to prevent the knight from jumping in but lost worse..
If I start 1.Nf6 how do I play the most challenging way for the Stonewall?
Thx
Your d6 setup, with a queenside fianchetto, is perfectly playable. I actually play much the same, on some occassions.
It might surprise you to know that you were actually winning in that game - pretty much the whole game.
You only lost on the final move, when you played ...Qf6??
Instead, ...Bf4! would have completely neutralized White's attack, and you likely would have gone on to win the game without much trouble at all.
So, to summarize: your setup was fine. You were winning much of the game, actually.
You just missed a tactic, that's all. And there were also other tactical opportunities that you missed along the way, too - a minor point, though. The main point is that you recognize that your general setup is fine and completely playable against the Stonewall.
tygxc wrote:
Like in this correspondence game:
Dude, that's a different opening.
The least we can say is that colors are reversed, but we all know that it makes a ton of a difference.
IronSteam1 wrote:
TheSonics wrote:
In both games I went for a d6 setup... the other 2 games I lost I can't find them but I played a d5 setup to prevent the knight from jumping in but lost worse..
If I start 1.Nf6 how do I play the most challenging way for the Stonewall?
Thx
Your d6 setup, with a queenside fianchetto, is perfectly playable. I actually play much the same, on some occassions.
It might surprise you to know that you were actually winning in that game - pretty much the whole game.
You only lost on the final move, when you played ...Qf6??
Instead, ...Bf4! would have completely neutralized White's attack, and you likely would have gone on to win the game without much trouble at all.
So, to summarize: your setup was fine. You were winning much of the game, actually.
You just missed a tactic, that's all. And there were also other tactical opportunities that you missed along the way, too - a minor point, though. The main point is that you recognize that your general setup is fine and completely playable against the Stonewall.
ah ok! cool. If you can find/post any of your games vs Stonewall i'd love that. I feel like there should be some way to improve the move orders... Most of my games even if I have a good position it seems like White has the fun and puts on pressure...
thx for writing man u rock
Optimissed wrote:
When white plays the Stonewall, I play solidly and positionally with d5 and c5, which prevents white building a big centre. I play classically, with e6, Be7 and 0-0. I play b6 to swap off the light squared bishops and black's q then goes to c8 if you don't wish to allow the fork on Qd8 and Bd7. It's not bad to allow that because white's N gets to move four times in succession.
Then it's a case of maneouvring black's knights to command e4 and white has to be very careful. This method of completely neutralising the Stonewall Attack was taught to me by a Blind Chess World Champion whom I knew fairly well, because I used to take him to club matches at one point.
Cool can you share? I didn't understand how you mean to trade LSB... I normally lose when I play d5 I always lose although I know d5 is the principled way
If you have a game to show thatd be awesome thx bro
TheSonics wrote:
Cool can you share? I didn't understand how you mean to trade LSB...
Something like ...b6 followed by ...Ba6 to exchange white's d3 bishop (which is his strongest attacking piece in the stonewall) is positionally desirable for black.
Dec 11, 2023
0
#9
Against the Stonewall, you need to get in d5. Your failure was because White got in e4 very quickly. The way to beat the Stonewall is to keep domination of the e4-square and aim for a N vs DSB ending (Black getting the N) or else allow e4 only if you have a ready-made winning attack in return for it, like pressuring d4 to make e4 hard for White to play because it weakens d4.
Queen's Indian setups against the Stonewall formation don't work if White knows what they are doing.
A very fun try that I'd highly recommend (as you appear to be a b6-Bb7 NID, QID, or English Defense player) is 2... b6 3. Bd3 Bb7! completely neutering any thoughts of a traditional Stonewall 4. f4 structure.
Optimissed wrote:
TheSonics wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
When white plays the Stonewall, I play solidly and positionally with d5 and c5, which prevents white building a big centre. I play classically, with e6, Be7 and 0-0. I play b6 to swap off the light squared bishops and black's q then goes to c8 if you don't wish to allow the fork on Qd8 and Bd7. It's not bad to allow that because white's N gets to move four times in succession.
Then it's a case of maneouvring black's knights to command e4 and white has to be very careful. This method of completely neutralising the Stonewall Attack was taught to me by a Blind Chess World Champion whom I knew fairly well, because I used to take him to club matches at one point.
Cool can you share? I didn't understand how you mean to trade LSB... I normally lose when I play d5 I always lose although I know d5 is the principled way
If you have a game to show thatd be awesome thx bro
https://www.chess.com/game/daily/315808786
I hope that @REVENGE-010 doesn't mind me using this game. I respect the man ... he's a good player.
I think the engine here gave me 92.8% accuracy for this but in reality it must have been near 100% At one point it marked me down for a move that forced the win. The move the engine wanted to play only drew. At other points it marked me down, for instance, when I advanced the K in the ending because it maintained the win and seemed safer in a line I'd spotted. Engines are no good at positional chess like this. No good at all.
oh man i loved this game. it might sound funny to you because it's so trivial but trading bishops never occured to me cuz im used to QID and only go Ba6 in Nimzo stuff. This is better than going for crazy tactics... 
thx!!! (when i tried d5 I lost most games)
TheSonics wrote:
I've faced it very few times but I think I've lost 3 out of 4 games...
Also I saw there's a Magnus Course on this maybe that's why it's more popular recently?
Here is a game I lost:
this one I won:
In both games I went for a d6 setup... the other 2 games I lost I can't find them but I played a d5 setup to prevent the knight from jumping in but lost worse..
If I start 1.Nf6 how do I play the most challenging way for the Stonewall?
Thx
ill speak on potential antidotes when i wake up from bed in 8-10 hours
How to Defend Against the Stonewall Attack...
For an introduction to the The Stonewall Attack check out...
https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/stonewall-attack
There was an article in the December 1981 issue of Chess Life magazine, pp. 34-36, by IM Larry D. Evans (not the former US Open Champion GM Larry M. Evans, who was a friend of Bobby Fischer), titled "Stonewalling - How to turn this frustrating opening into your opponent's Watergate". It is a essentially a tutorial on how to defend as Black against the Stonewall Attack...
The complete Chess Life magazine containing the "Stonewalling" article can be found here.....the article is on pp. 34-36...
(Downloading from the archives is slow, so be patient)...
http://uscf1-nyc1.aodhosting.com/CL-AND-CR-ALL/CL-ALL/1981/1981_12.pdf
Back issues of Chess Life can be downloaded as .pdf files from the United States Chess Federation (USCF) Chess Life and Chess Review Archives here...
https://new.uschess.org/chess-life-digital-archives
"Stonewalling - How to turn this frustrating opening into your opponent's Watergate", Chess Life Magazine, December 1981, pp.34-36 (for links to the article, see my post above)...
whats that
Optimissed wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
To be fair, white didn't play it properly. The aim is to recapture on d4 with the e pawn to give the c1 bishop a faster route into the game. Therefore white doesn't play Nd2 when it blocks the defence of the f pawn. When you play as white against the Stonewall Defence, that's one of the tricks that you know about. Obviously the tactic with Nb4 would also be impossible. Against a player who knows how to play it, that kind of thing isn't possible.
could you provide some examples of the "stonewall attack proper"
the computer recommends the strong bg4
AngryPuffer wrote:
the computer recommends the strong bg4
This is a fine way to play as Black, although 8...Bf5 looks stronger than 8...Bh5- the exchange at f5 is not what white wants, as he will have a lot of trouble putting the c1 bishop into play.
I've faced it very few times but I think I've lost 3 out of 4 games...
Also I saw there's a Magnus Course on this maybe that's why it's more popular recently?
Here is a game I lost:
this one I won:
In both games I went for a d6 setup... the other 2 games I lost I can't find them but I played a d5 setup to prevent the knight from jumping in but lost worse..
If I start 1.Nf6 how do I play the most challenging way for the Stonewall?
Thx