How to play Ruy lopez/ Italian Game for black?

Hey guys, where can i find some useful opening theory to play Ruy Lopez and Italian game for black? Usually i play only sicilian against e4, but I want to increase my repertoire. There are plenty of information about white, but i can't find the same for black. It's always ok to play the moves, but i think i lack the understanding of the positions that usually arise and don't know exactly what are the common plans. Every help is welcome!

u can find some stuff here on chess.com...

https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-giuoco-piano

https://www.chess.com/video/player/openings-for-beginners-the-ruy-lopez

And many others (articles, video series...) if u search.

There are numerous books out there for Black, in many cases, 2 books by the same author - one for the Ruy lopez, one for other open games, including the Italian.  Marin wrote a pair of such books about 10 years ago.  Bologdan wrote a pair more recently.  Nigel Davies wrote playing 1.e4 e5.  The list goes on.  Do the research and read reviews before buying just based on the cover.

I've seen some videos, but they don't explain everything. For instance, in the Lopez' Main line, when i play Re8, then Bf8 and g6, what is the point of this whole maneuver? Is to exchange the dark squared bishop? These kind of stuff i couldnt find in any video.

well, u expect too much information because these openings are huge.

So books are here to help u!

Indeed Marin's book on spanish is awesome for that.

Outrageously broad question as these are 2 of the most studied openings in chess history!

Aside from the obvious 'get books' and 'review master games' I would offer some practical tips...

1. Start with the Italian... Its a lot easier to get your head around... Then move onto ruy

2. For the one you're studying... Play as white as well as black to learn faster and more broadly

3. Try to stay in the mainline initially... Understand the reasons behind the moves... And see how deep you can go before you lose track.. Then review game after.

I would add that studying E4 e5 complexes is a great idea if you want to improve your game so stick at it!

This is the Polerio defense to the Italian. I think it is the mainline, though I may be mistaken.

Basically, after white moves 4. Ng5, every move up to 8. Be2 is forced, so if they’re bold enough to play the Italian, they’ll play into your game almost every single time. 8. Be2 is the best move, but I have seen Ba4 most often in between 1150-1350 (I then switched to the Ulvestad, marked by black responding 5. exd5 b5, though I may switch back because I think its position is weaker than Polerio, but it has “surprise value” as most people expect the Polerio). If someone makes a move other than Be2, then you’re still likely best served by pushing around the knight as the mainline does but (1) it really depends on your opponents move and (2) white can pin the pawn with Qe2 if the bishop is not on e2.

Essentially, black’s idea is to give white a pawn to get out of white’s quick coordinated attack following 4. Ng5, which pressures f7 and the king. Giving white this pawn also allows black rapid development: in the mainline, black has both knights out, has both bishops pointed where the white king will likely castle, has a queen-bishop battery on the c7-h2 diagonal, black is ready to castle, and black’s white square bishop enjoys enough space that linking the rooks is a formality for black at this point. White, on the other hand, needs to prove that he understands the concept of queenside development, pdq.

From here, white will want to develop pieces and buy time to catch up to blacks development. Because of this, black wants to launch quick attacks to force a mistake and grab a knight or a bishop. Black wants to attack and start threatening mates, checks and captures. Black doesn’t want to trade pieces as its pieces are active and whites aren’t. White on the other hand wants to trade pieces, get out of the middle game, and convert it’s one pawn lead into a winning endgame advantage.

I am not very sure about the Ruy Lopez, but there are a lot of things for the Italian game. Such as the Traxler Counter Attack shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTKfH6BcYr4 and the Blackburne Shilling Gambit shown here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwxHLYkrjiY&t=0s. 

Thanks to everyone!! I will take a deeper look in the positions and play e5 more often. 

• ththank

yes

Many wrong things here...

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 is Petroff defence where positions are really different from Italian/Ruy Lopez.

2 knights defence Polerio variation is not at all forced, where nowadays, 8.Bd3 and 8.Qf3 are preferred to 8.Be2 the traditional move (while 8.Ba4 is almost losing...), where 8...Bd6 and probably better 8...Bc5 (getting improved Bd6 positions) give an easy game for black.

Of course, white is not forced to play Ng5, and can try other things with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 which is complex and lead to many possible lines.

But the main line is just 4.d3, to reach "normal" positions, with typical structures.

Black can play 3...Bc5, the classical move, and then once again, white has d3, but c3-d4, and Evans gambit, so other stuffs to handle.

Too many variations, that's why books are helpful, and time of course...

My apologies. I realized after posting I confused Italian game with the knight advance variation because I studied that more so than other Italian games. You are correct that white can make any move after Black plays 3. Nf6. 

And forced may have been the wrong word. Automatic may be better. My terminology isn’t the best. But, of the 2412 masters games in the sites database that went 4. Ng5 and d5, white almost always made the same move on turns 5-7 which the exception of 6. d3, which is about fifty years outdated. No other move for white in this line has more than five plays at the master level, meaning that it’s pretty obvious for white what the best move is, hence why I say forced and automatic.

And of course, this is only if white plays Ng5. Most games have White backing off the knight attack and building their position with d3, which I haven’t studied as much.