is rat defense a good opening?

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lasagnaa

it has a higher winning percentage for black than indian game or queens pawn game, but ive never seen it done before. is it a good opening, and worth it to memorize all the lines?

LoveYouSoMuch

don't just look at percentages and "memorizing lines" if you have no clue what kind of positions are going to come up

most people just play 1.. d6 intending to transpose to the pirc/philidor or king's indian like 2 e4 nf6 or c4 nf6... there's an independent line in 2 c4 e5 which is quite interesting though

waffllemaster

One move is not an opening.  As lovyousomuch says it will almost always transpose as the opening continues.

AlCzervik

Haha! Reminds me of the game explorer "feature" here for freeloaders. Click on an opening, any opening. OK, here are two moves!

Alexm421

Alwaysgoingtowin you can not say if you want to be a good player you can not play this opening. Krammink plays it sometimes.

Frankovich73

Petrosian and Bronstein have picked up this as well.

The main idea is 2.c4 e5 going for a Czech Benoni most of the times as the Queen Exchange doesn't bother Black. But just because it has a "good percentage" doesn't mean it is worth playing.

TetsuoShima
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xxvalakixx

It can transpose into pirc defence, KID, benoni-lines, I do not really recommend it. The idea of d6 could be to play e5 against c4 as it was said, but there is one problem with it.

I am not saying this the best for white, because it is not. But if you play too much games in a line like this, (instead of playing a KID in this case, where you would play d6 and e5 later anyway) your middlegame play wont develop since you will get queenless middlegames all the time.

VLaurenT

@lasagnaa : it's a difficult opening if you're not an experienced player, so I wouldn't really recommend it - besides it's more about how to handle various pawn structures than specific moves

@alwaysgoingtowin : it has been played by a bunch a decent players (Kramnik, Ivanchuk, Aronian, Morozevich, Vachier-Lagrave) at classical time-controls against GMs so it's probably not that bad... Smile

Alexm421

Alwaysgoingtowin you can not say that this is a stupid opening.

LoveYouSoMuch
xxvalakixx wrote:

It can transpose into pirc defence, KID, benoni-lines, I do not really recommend it. The idea of d6 could be to play e5 against c4 as it was said, but there is one problem with it.

 

I am not saying this the best for white, because it is not. But if you play too much games in a line like this, (instead of playing a KID in this case, where you would play d6 and e5 later anyway) your middlegame play wont develop since you will get queenless middlegames all the time.

that position after q trade is actually very drawish, symmetrical pawn structure and queens off count more than any advantage white might have.

that said, black doesn't have to take it - 3 nc6 is playable and black has some compensation, though possibly not enough. i don't think anyone should be afraid of the positions after q trade though.

in any case, i think it's a bit silly to claim it's not "the best" opening, since worst case scenario is a transposition to the pirc and the pirc is fully playable unless you are rated like above 2600.

Alexm421

Alwaysgoingtowin you say that it is not the best opening but, what is wrong with it? Just because it is not as popular does not mean it is a bad opening.

TheGreatOogieBoogie
mashanator wrote:

"Any opening named after an animal is bad." - Tony Miles(?)

Even the Orangutan and Pterodactyl? 

turtlegamer
mashanator wrote:

"Any opening named after an animal is bad." - Tony Miles(?)

What about the hedgehog?

JGambit

It is the best against d4, play it and you will become the greatest of all time. Losing is not possile in the rat. I defends every attack while setting you up to launch an unstoppable counter attack. what are you waiting for? abandon every other move after d4.

turtlegamer
JGambit wrote:

It is the best against d4, play it and you will become the greatest of all time. Losing is not possile in the rat. I defends every attack while setting you up to launch an unstoppable counter attack. what are you waiting for? abandon every other move after d4.

It really rats out your opponent huh?Smile

Bishop_Hurricane

after most likely c4 you could transpose into kings indian with nf6 or g6

caezx

"Any opening named after an animal is bad."

basically,he found a refutation of both the hedgehog system and the pelikan sicilian

lasagnaa

I am scared of rats :)

Plus I'm scared of endgames.

So I decided its a no-brainer for me.

DarkVlader
caezx wrote:

"Any opening named after an animal is bad."

basically,he found a refutation of both the hedgehog system and the pelikan sicilian

That's what I was just going to say. I was going to say Roman Dzindzichashvili thinks it's bad and I was going to reference that very quote, but you did it for me.