I agree, 2.f3 is silly.
Black doesn't even have to take on the 2nd move, and white just loses the natural square for his king's knight
Something like 2...e5 or 2...e6 (mentioned above) is just better for black.
And when you commented on move 20 white is clearly better - what centre are you talking about? I see a knight on d2 with no where to go, and a pawn on e4 poking at a dead end. If anything, black is better due to his open files.
Maybe I am missing something but Fritz 10 plays about what 2750 Elo? And you are all saying that I get a favorable endgame because the computer played poorly. I will address all your comments one at a time. Right now I am going to give Fritz 10 a minimum of 1 hour/move to see its play improves. Our game was played at the rate of 120'40, 60'20 '30. I used about 2 minutes for the first ten moves and was better by move 10.
How many Grandmasters get winning endgames against Fritz 12 in under twenty moves? Surely if I can do this against Fritz 10, they should be able to do it against Fritz 12. Doesn't Fritz 12 have an Elo rating above 2800?
Oh god, not another Slaughterchess "x opening is busted cause I move all my pawns one square"-thread.
And I'd like you to explain why white is better in the end, cause it hardly looks like he is better to me.
Oh god, not another Slaughterchess "x opening is busted cause I move all my pawns one square"-thread.
lol
Maybe I am missing something but Fritz 10 plays about what 2750 Elo? And you are all saying that I get a favorable endgame because the computer played poorly. I will address all your comments one at a time. Right now I am going to give Fritz 10 a minimum of 1 hour/move to see its play improves. Our game was played at the rate of 120'40, 60'20 '30. I used about 2 minutes for the first ten moves and was better by move 10.
How many Grandmasters get winning endgames against Fritz 12 in under twenty moves? Surely if I can do this against Fritz 10, they should be able to do it against Fritz 12. Doesn't Fritz 12 have an Elo rating above 2800?
To be frank, all of your assessments are way off.
man I got all excited, I thought someone actually did refute the center-counter. thanks for nothing.
Considering all years its been played and all the great players that have employed this opening, if 2. ...f3 busted the Scandanvian don't you think that someone would have adopted the move at the top levels of chess?
I'm 100% sure that the normal setup against the Scandinavian is superior to the 2.f3 nonsense. BTW sloughterchess what kind of computer do you have? even my trusty old Chessmater screams that 2.f3 simply allows black to equalize if not be better immediately and I have had Fritz 10 in the past and frankly it was a very good engine. There is no way it would go into a worse endgame after some weak move like 2.f3.
Not to be mean, but considering your rating, it's hard to believe you can beat Fritz 10 if you did not get help from another program...I cannot beat a 2750 rated computer program and I'm sure not a lot of people on this site, not counting GMs, can beat a 2750 program on their own...especially anyone with low rating against other humans. The Scandinavian Defense may not be the best defense versus e4, but it is not busted.
I don't mean to be rude, but I don't really think you're ahead here.
Specifically, it seems that some coordination of the knight and b-pawn could produce a passed pawn for black on the a-file... That combined with your open king and I would prefer to play as black here, because I can't really see how white either: queens/coordinates rook and knight for mate.
I could be mistaken, I didn't look at it for too long, but that's my quick thought.
The only thing that's busted is sloughterchess's computer, apparently... I've got Fritz 10 and it doesn't _ever_ think 2...dxe4 is the best answer to f3. It prefers both e5 and e6-- 2...dxe4 never rises above third best and the longer the engine runs the worse it consider dxe4. You yourself, in your notes, wonder why the computer would play dxe4... The answer is: it shouldn't and it doesn't.
As I go thru this game with Fritz 10... sloghterchess, our 1600 human player... seems to find more of Fritz's first-choice moves than Fritz does for Black! Really.
Checkout move 15 for White... 15.Kf2, the king moves onto the f-file which is about to be opened up... Sloughterchess played it, and Fritz agrees it's White's best move on the board.... can I get a show of hands please, how many 1500-1700 players would play that there?
Sloughterchess, please admit that this is Fritz vs. Fritz with with infinite analysis on and you massaging the lines every now and then when a sideline or second choice move strikes your fancy. That's exactly how it plays , IMO.
With a simple strategy I got a highly favorable endgame against Fritz 10 in 20 moves; but move thirty I think Fritz is just lost, but I don't do endgames so someone else can mop the ending.
You don't do endgames? Meaning that you have no ability whatsoever to demostrate that you are better here? I am certainly not an expert, but I dont see why white is winning.
lol @ "I don't do endgames"
It's like yeah, just screw that part of the game. But what's the point of getting a good endgame when you don't know how to play it?
I don't do endgames either, once my games reach a position where there is less than 20 points of material on the board, I abort the game and usually I grab myself a cup of coffe instead.
It has given arise to some unpleasent chats with my otb team mates though.
Why stop there?
Heck, I don't do openings any more...
When I played Fritz 10 in the Center-Counter it played 1.e4 d5 2.f3 dxe4 instantly which means that 2...dxe4 is "book" for Fritz 10, so someone who programmed Fritz 10 thought it was book.
I will see if I can win against the 2...e6 variation. When I gave Fritz 10 eleven hours to crunch move four, it played 4...e5!, so I think I can beat Fritz 10 with your idea of 2...e6.
When Fritz 10 crunched both sides of the final position, White wins.
Suggesting that Black could equalize with no serious analysis does not deal with the primary question, "How can computers win when they don't know to evaluate positions?" Fritz decided to go into an endgame simply because it didn't evaluate the endgame correctly. I've seen Fritz 10 give an evaluation of -1.89 when Black was dead lost!
My strategy is to take squares away from the Black minors, which, in case you missed it, was very effective. Bye for now---I've got a game to play.
By the way, I've been told that my Universal Attack is nothing new. Maybe not, but it was good enough to draw Fritz 10.
It's wierd that you can get winning and equal positions against fritz but have 30+ game losing streak against the chess.com computer rated around 2000
With a simple strategy I got a highly favorable endgame against Fritz 10 in 20 moves; but move thirty I think Fritz is just lost, but I don't do endgames so someone else can mop the ending.