Is the Vulture defence still popular?

Are people still using this defence against d4 the last few years? I found about a hundred games from the past three decades, which I collect into my own database.

Just curious to your comments.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 Ne4, and no, it never has been "popular".

Or some also do 2...c5 3.d5 Ne4 as well.

Is it a nice defence for us lower grade players? For example myself, who is getting back into chess after 30 odd years.

My main idea of trying this defence is to answer just in one particular way against the opening move 1. d4, without having to learn all sorts of responses.

The Vulture defence is 1 d4 c5 2. d5 3. c4 Ne4. It is a variation on the Benoni defence, but with the idea of Black's pieces being active onmany fields against the advanced White pwan on d5.

from vague memory, there is an early b4 sac line that busts it open, i think its something like b4, qxb4, rb1 and bb2 or something like that.

Shame because its so creative looking too.

I’m all for offbeat openings but this seems too much. I think after something like f3 Qa5 Nd2 Nxd2 Bxd2 Qb6 Bc3 black has trouble developing and white has a massive center.

Yeah. F5 is thematic, but black usually has pieces developed.

I like my idea more than I like your idea, but we probably equally like our own ideas (lol)

If you do this via 1.d4 c5, you'd never get the Vulture against me if I choose to play 1.d4.

If you are going to play something this obscure and unsound, at least arrive at it correctly.

You should play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 Ne4.

The problem with 1.d4 c5 is that after 2.d5 Nf6, White should play 3.Nc3! with advantage!

Hi ThrillerFan... what would you do next then, after answering 1.d4 with 1. .. c5?

Pushing the White c pawn to c5 is perhaps the reason this could immediately lead out of the Vulture defence(?). So therefore answering with a c5 from Black in the first move can prevent this, and steer ahead into the Vulture.

I don't think this is a good idea. Just try all sort of responses, feel the heat and develop some preferences later.

Well, I understand the Vulture defence is quite oncommon and perhaps even disliked. I'll try to get it in my repertoire anyway. But you're right. I should expand on more against d4. Probably also with the Dutch defence. I have a book about that also from years back. Trying to get back into chess after a 30 years break.

I would never answer 1.d4 with 1...c5.  It is a dubious move at best.  2.d5! And no matter what, 2...d6, 2...e6, 2...Nf6, you will not see c4 from White if he knows what he is doing.

2...e6 3.e4!

2...d6 3.Nc3

2...Nf6 3.Nc3

The answer is you need to play 1...Nf6, wait for c4 from White, and only then play 2...c5.

Thanks for your reply. I collected about a hundred Vulture themed games, and indeed saw that various Black players do indeed answer with 2. .. Nf6 when 1. d4 is played and it gets into thin defensive system as you mention.

Can I just ask you ... if Black plays Nf6 first, is it not possible to get into another opening if White does not play 2. c4? Just asking to learn something here.

Thanks so far everyone! Next Thursday I start again playing chess in an open ICCF group with 6 other players. Let's just see what happens there.

Enjoy and good luck!

A book by the inventor of the Vulture: Stefan Buecker (1989) The Vulture and Associated Opening Systems https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9781852232931 . Buecker preferred the 1.d4 c5 2.d5 Nf6 move order. As implied by the title, he had other ideas if white did not play 3.c4.